1
0,00:01,000 --> 0,00:32,000
Welcome to the never been promoted podcast, where we're all about helping you cut the tie to all that holds you back. The excuses, the fears, the people, that sense of entitlement. Cut the ties so you can unleash your inner entrepreneur. Your host, Thomas Helfrich, is on a mission to make more entrepreneurs in the world and make them better at entrepreneurship.
2
0,00:32,000 --> 0,02:01,000
I know you're probably wondering, will I really die if I'm not different? I can't say for sure, but I don't know if I'd risk it. So I'd listen up for today because why risk death for just being boring in the same like everybody else? Because you're like everybody else. I mean, think about this, though. Right? Our guest today is Roy Osing. He has, some some views on being different. He's alive, so maybe we should listen to him because he's different. He's not dead. Hey. Thanks for everyone who's listening, watching. I am Thomas Helfrich, your your host. We are here on a mission to help a 1000000 entrepreneurs. Screw that. Let's help millions of entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. You know, you gotta you gotta get out there, unleash kind of who you are. You do this by cutting the title, the kind of the shit holding you back in your life. And it could be anything. Fears, excuses, people, you know, just whatever it is. There's lots of little things holding you back for being great just in your life in general. Being different might be one of them, so we'll have a conversation around that today with Roy. My only shameless plug for ourselves is, please, if you just get him in at youtube.com/at never been promoted, give it a subscribe. And if you listen to the podcast, take a moment. Give it a 5 star review. Even if you don't feel like it's 5 star, give it a 5 star review. Just kidding. If you don't think it is, get through to me on LinkedIn and tell me why, and I will listen. Alright. Enough shameless plugs. Let's get Roy to the street. Roy, how are you? Any better. It would be illegal, Thomas. No kidding, man. I'm just awesome today. Just on it. You're in Vancouver, so things are illegal there that aren't legal here.
3
0,02:01,000 --> 0,02:02,000
Probably.
4
0,02:02,000 --> 0,02:20,000
Well, we'll probably not to that as probably. Like, you haven't explored it or looked into it. I that that's a very that's a very safe answer. I appreciate that. Yeah. I can put you. So, you're different because you're alive. So as soon as we stop being different, we die is my understanding of your book and and your philosophy. How are you today? You good?
5
0,02:20,000 --> 0,02:35,000
Oh, I'm, like I say, it's I I'm really good today. I've got some sunshine outside, and, temperatures aren't bad in Vancouver today. And I'm having a conversation with somebody that, that gets it. So, yeah, it's all good here.
6
0,02:35,000 --> 0,03:00,000
You know, I I when we get into this, we'll see how far too different is to than than you get you're, like, past the spectrum of acceptable different. So we'll we'll talk about that, but I I'm looking forward to this. Do you wanna take a few minutes and just kind of set the stage, you know, so to speak with you? Just, you know, what you're doing today and then back up to kind of the relevant data that would that would support that, and then we'll start from there and kind of get into the weeds with how to BE DiFFERENT.
7
0,03:00,000 --> 0,03:08,000
Yeah. So I'm gonna do it the opposite way, if you don't mind, Thomas, in the spirit. If you did it any differently, it would BE DiFFERENT. In the spirit of BE DiFFERENT.
8
0,03:08,000 --> 0,03:24,000
So Should we say wait. Can we say goodbye now? And then, hey. It was thank you so much for interviewing. We're gonna do everything else. Awesome. We could just run it from the bottom. Great. It's great. Do you guys follow? We'll talk to you next week. Okay. Alright. Go ahead. No. It's kinda like a then and now scene for me. I mean, then,
9
0,03:24,000 --> 0,06:39,000
in the day, I was, asked to, to lead a company, when the Internet was just hitting us. And, we were sitting in a in a telco environment. Right? Monopoly organization just like, tight with rules and etcetera etcetera. The internet comes along and this huge opportunity presents itself and I was asked to lead, the the charge to take this early stage company and and maximize the opportunities we could get from the Internet. And that was an interesting challenge because, you know, it was literally a cultural change that was required going from a monopoly into a competitive powerhouse. So we we can talk about the sources of things. That was the genesis, okay, of a number of what I call audacious moves that we made to actually reset the culture, do things differently, and appeal to customers in a way that they've never been appealed to before, grew the business to a 1,000,000,000. And today that business is worth 18,000,000,000. I'd like to think that my team had a a little role to play in that. So that that occupied a lot of my time. Okay? But it did give me the material to talk about being entrepreneurial. Right? And so for for those of you watching this and listening to this, this is not theoretical mumbo freaking jumbo. This is stuff that actually works in the real world. Right? And so when you hear me talk about hiring for goosebumps, you will not find that in a regular textbook except audacious ways I took a startup to a 1,000,000,000. So you'll see it in my textbook and people would say, well, that's kind of a silly idea. And I said, well, maybe, but it worked. It was one of a whole bunch of things that we we, you know, beat ourselves up on to get to a 1,000,000,000. So went through that. I left, and and decided to take on a second career. And so the now part of Roy is all about spreading my word. Okay? It's all about spreading and sharing like we're gonna be doing today. The things that really worked for me as growth, imperatives to help businesses, help people with their careers, but it's all built around this mantra of BE DiFFERENT. And the mantra is really simple. It says you're not being different just for the sake of being different. You're being different in a way that people care about. So it's a serving, mantra. It is not narcissistic. And if, you know, a lot of I quite frankly don't care about the color of your hair. I don't care about your pronouns. I don't care about that. What I wanna know is how are you being different in a way that serves others. And so that's my kind of juice right now, Thomas, as I'm spending a lot of time, you know, having conversations like this, trying to get people to understand that it's time to put some textbooks down and pick up another one. Alright? If they wanna be a successful entrepreneur. If you don't, that's fine. Just keep promulgating the old stuff and we'll see you later. BE DiFFERENT or be dead. And so it's all based on BE DiFFERENT differentiation is the key challenge that we're facing today in in organizations, and that's what I like to talk about. And, yeah. I'm I'm just doing that. I'm whacking away at it, man.
10
0,06:39,000 --> 0,07:59,000
Well, you make a very good point. Being different for the sake of attention gets you that, but it doesn't always get you business. If anything, sometimes the negative attention of being different can can have it. You have to have a strategic reason for the being different that align. So not that ours is any good. I cut a tie off. It's blue. It's in brand color. It's why I did it. But the idea, there's a metaphor there, and there was intent to say, hey. I'm gonna go with my personal brand. And let me tell you, that was a weird decision to say, hey. Everything I'm gonna have out there is gonna have a cut blue tie and white on. And then that way, when I show up, like, oh, he's got I know that guy. I can remember. There's there was an intent there. To BE DiFFERENT there was not just because I was bored one day and and where I decided to get attention by having crazy hair, doing some eyes, or saying something crazily outrageous. And I think that's what you're saying is, like, in you know, I think something I'd love you to dive into a little bit. The idea of hiring for goosebumps. I could not agree more with the statement, and only because I have a little insight. Can you explain that? Because anybody listening, I don't care if you're an entrepreneur or you have a job, you're or you're getting a job. Right? No matter where you are, this concept is so key to building the right teams more so than resumes. I'll say it that way. So you wanna take why don't you take that one since it's your Yeah. I'll I'll take that one. So so our strategy,
11
0,07:59,000 --> 0,13:46,000
as an Internet company was obviously to, reap the benefits of a of an in place customer base that we took from the voice world and the monopoly world. Okay? We wanted to leverage this base and get them into the Internet space and have them, buy the products and services, etcetera, etcetera that we had. And the key to that really was creating what we called memorable experiences. So I I was a very customer service oriented guy who believed that we really didn't have to sell. If we could create magical moments for people, they would buy. So it was more of a demand orientation as opposed to a push orientation. And so it occurred to me that my challenge was to recruit the kind of people who could do that. Okay. Service experiences, I'm sorry to say to you guys, do not reside in technology. Okay? Technology does what it's told to do, and anybody that tells me that they felt goosebumps after reading an FAQ that satisfied them, I will call you out on that. And so it's all people. And so I thought, well, okay. How am I gonna be able to recognize somebody that has this innate desire to love people? And so it was part of my higher human being lovers, kind of program that we had. And so I came up with this approach. So okay. Again, we need to spot human HBLers, I would call them. Right? So we would have, typical hiring, meetings where the candidates would be in. And this was done primarily at first for customer service people. Right? So I I kinda come up with this, a different approach here as well because I was involved in literally all of them. We had panel interviews and the president of the company was involved in this. Yes. For you, textbookers, you would say this is micromanaging and I will say absolutely right. Roy had his fingerprints on the most strategic part of the whole operations, which was recruiting the people who could deliver service, who could deliver top line, because that's that's the objective. So we would have a we would have these meetings. My direct reports were involved in there for two reasons. First of all, to understand that it was important enough that the president get involved in hiring, and secondly, to actually learn the questions that I was gonna ask. And maybe in the future that they would as well, and it turned out to work that well. Okay. Okay. So, Thomas, you're you're applying for a frontline supervisor's job in customer service in in Roy's Advanced Communications Organization. And one of the questions I would ask you is, okay, Thomas, do you like people? Do you love human beings? Now you you know that this is a trick question. Right? So you were leaning in, but now you're kinda leaning back. You're just trying to figure out, alright, what does he wanna hear? Alright. So there was two kinds of answers that I would get. Right? The first one would say, well, of of course I do, Roy. And then I would say, alright. Tell me a story. I want you to tell me a story that proves to me that you love people. Okay. 1, kind of response, right, would be like the I'm gonna tell him what he wants sort of scenario, and it would just leave me cold. This was the intellectual's response to the question. Right? And so I would feel like a fish and escort them out the door. The other kind of answer, okay, was a rich, passionate, emotional story about how this individual actually served another human being. I would get goosebumps. Fact, I got them right now. You did it to me, Thomas. I got them right now all over again. That's how you got on the show. I mean I know. I know. It's a it's a curse. So they would give me goosebumps. I would hire that person, and I would teach them what they had to know about the job. You see? Because you can't teach people to love people. You can you can train them to grin. Right? And we all know what those guys are called. You can grin me to death, but I cannot teach you to love homo sapiens. I can't teach you to get up in the morning with this incredible innate desire to serve somebody in a way that they've never been served before and yet that's a competitive advantage. And so I have this ability to relate really silly little tactical micro things up to the strategy. Because I wouldn't have done the goosebump thing if there were not a relationship between goosebumps, service experience, revenue growth because that was my job as a leader, to grow this company. And so that was, that was one my people at first thought I was crazy. I mean, I I got into so much pressure from my executive peers that say, Roy, what are you doing? And I had HR people telling me that, wait a minute, There's no evidence, alright, in HR, textbooks that in fact this works. And I said, quite frankly, I don't care. I don't give a shit what the textbook says. I happen to know, okay, that the people that give me goosebumps will be really warm, not just to customers. To your point, Thomas, okay, this is about a cultural change inside. They will respect one another. They will treat their fellow employees, okay, like they want like like they're actually important and so forth. And so we started to see just with a silly little concept this thing grow, and in fact, it became the subject of conversations. Right? Now how many goosebumps have you have you got today? Right? None? Okay. Clearly, you're either not talking to humans or you're not talking to humans in the right way. And so it was just an amazing I call it a strategic imperative and people laugh at that. How can goosebumps be strategic? Let me tell you. Anything you do that drives behavioral change, that drives loyal customers, that drives revenue growth is strategic. Goosebumps are strategic.
12
0,13:46,000 --> 0,14:20,000
I I mean, I I love that, and that is different. I don't know. I I honestly if you ask me that question in interview, my answer would be like some people because some people really are horrible. And I'd be like, we all know it. You got that neighbor that you're not you're gonna be friendly with. But if they called in, they would feel amazing. I'd say that I would answer that. That one, I'm gonna have to put a grin on for. Most of them, I actually like people. You know? I'll give the homeless guy 20. I'll fill up a guy's gas car. I could probably answer. I'd be like, love, you know, love's earned.
13
0,14:20,000 --> 0,15:35,000
Well, look at look at Like yeah. I like people. When you're when you're when you're in the heat of battle Yeah. Okay, you don't have time, right, to go through the intellectual process of weeding out, people, you're either gonna win them or you're not gonna win them. If you're serious about winning them, if you're serious about it, okay, then there are certain things that you need to do. You need to suck it up and do the right thing. Okay? If you don't wanna be in business, if you don't want the client, then do what your your natural urges are. What I'm here to say is if you want it, there's this amazing simple little talent. It's not actually, it's not a talent. It's it's an innate part. It's a part of your DNA. It's part of your blood that's running through your veins. Okay? This natural leaning in inclination to help someone. You either have it or you don't have it. Okay. Look at I can tell if you're grinning me. I can tell it over the freaking phone. Right? So and other people can't too. You're not fooling anybody. And again, that's fine if that's what you wanna do. But if you wanna grow your business, like, unbelievably, if you wanna be a successful entrepreneur, you better you better start thinking about human touch in addition to technology. Okay?
14
0,15:35,000 --> 0,16:43,000
All I'm saying. No. Well, I listen. The teams that we, the no asshole rule, we probably have overextended. So, for the teams that we've kept for almost 4 years, they're amazing. Right? And they have that idea that truly serve you know, I'll catch them doing stuff on the weekends just to and I'm like, guys, you gotta take breaks. I mean, like like, sometimes I'm like, like, I love that you're there. If it's for me, please stop working on it. I can wait. I go, don't let my impatience ever fool you that you need to work on a weekend unless I say, could you please really do this because I blew it? And it's usually my mistake. But that mentality comes over. And the ones that have kind of, like, been late, done stuff, continually people get excuses. Right? And and okay. You had a bad day, whatever. But when it happened a couple of times, we're just like, nope. And I'm with you because, like, you know, if you can't hit deadlines, if you can't show up and really serve, we don't we don't have any interest in it either. So I'm with you on this. I don't know if we've gotten full goosebumps. There's a few people in my team, the core team specifically, that every one of them has a version of that. But, I think just as a general rule, hiring for the propensity to learn, hiring for the propensity to to wow or serve fully exceeds, hey, you have a resume that checks all the box.
15
0,16:43,000 --> 0,17:32,000
My wife in HR would probably disagree at this Hungary. But Well, I actually I actually had a was doing a podcast with this, this woman from New York, and she has, she had a PhD in HR. And when we started talking about this, I could see the pain in her face. And I said to her, I said you're really having a hard time with this right? And she goes, Yeah, I'm just I'm not getting it. I just don't believe it, etcetera. I said, Well, we should probably stop the conversation because I don't think there's any way you're gonna realize and recognize it. I said because you don't have it as part of your frame of reference. You're an academic. You haven't run a $1,000,000,000 a year business, so why are we even talking? And so she so she said, yeah. Okay. That makes sense, but I'm not gonna record it. And I said, no shit.
16
0,17:32,000 --> 0,18:04,000
It's recorded now, and it's line. And by the way, I think, though, if you could find someone with experience in an area that has those things, clearly an awesome hire. But I don't think it's a requirement. Yeah. But I have to listen. I should stop talking. I have never been promoted. That's the name of the thing. And I but I've been asked to leave plenty of times. So I probably am too different at times. So I was gonna I have a book coming out called Cut the Tie, and it was gonna be called Ask to Leave, but I think those are all too those were too much about me. So Cut the Tie is about you. It's about helping you. Well, Cut Cut Cut the Tie, by the way, I like
17
0,18:04,000 --> 0,19:56,000
because it's it's, it's your your proactively introducing discontinuity in my world is the way I would describe it. You're intervening on yourself. You're breaking away from momentum. You're breaking away from the status quo. All of which are requirements to be a successful entrepreneur. Now you need to take it one step further and create context for your what your life is. And this is where a lot of entrepreneurs fall down. I agree. Yeah. They come up with a technology that they think is a panacea, and they're gonna blow the technology out. I keep saying to them, I wanna understand, okay, what your context, what your strategy is, and then let's talk about how the product capabilities play into that context. Let's not start start by pushing the technology because by the way, everybody has technology. Right. Right? Everybody. I mean, it's not a competitive advantage anymore. So once you understand the context and you create what I call my only statement, and this is Roy's solution to what I say is mediocrity in the differentiation space today, where everybody says we're better, we're best, we're number 1, we're market leader, we're first, who cares? Because first of all, it's not believable. What you wanna be is you wanna be the only one that does what you do. Not better, not best. You wanna be the only. Part of my work with entrepreneurs is all about that. Because unless you understand how your solution is truly unique, you may as well stop burning cash because you're going to be dead. You're going to be one of the of the of the 50% of startups that die on the vine. Like, it's really interesting to me that nobody is very, very few people get the fact, right, that that that entrepreneurial death, generally, in my experience, and I've got a lot of it, I've been around a long time,
18
0,19:56,000 --> 0,20:03,000
is caused 38 years old, just so you guys know. Yeah. Right. He's really overstying the age thing.
19
0,20:03,000 --> 0,20:20,000
But it's it's it's caused by not being clear on what your your value proposition is Yep. In an only statement way. Textbooks don't give you that. They don't give you that. They give you USPs that don't mean anything because it's all about you.
20
0,20:20,000 --> 0,20:25,000
Roy, you're hired. Okay. You're hired. I know. I'm bringing I'm bringing you on the team. That's it. You gave you gave me goosebumps.
21
0,20:25,000 --> 0,20:28,000
Thomas, look at this is simple stuff.
22
0,20:28,000 --> 0,21:46,000
This is simple. You and I get off this call, I have a new service line, and I'm struggling with this exact thing. And I just and I and I'm being dead serious right now. You and I are gonna have to have a conversation about because I know there there's a problem I'm solving in the marketing space around verifying agencies and the fact that they are always up against a bad experience. I can't place the value in the words around it to do it. So you you and I are gonna have a conversation of how to get through that. So I'm teasing that. If you guys wanna see that live, you gotta join, our community. So, actually, though that one's fine, I'm not gonna even see that one. We're gonna I'm gonna steal that. Okay. I will tell you, though, like but, you know, so when we when we Insulin Relevance is my main company. And for a while, I think for, like, 6 months, we put on the on the site our our thing is is we actually give a shit. That was our that was our tagline. And I got pushed back that, hey. You may not be perceived professional enough for bigger companies. And they said so I took it off because you're you're provoking and not being provocative. And I was like, but we actually do give a shit. It's like and so I but I was like so I pulled it back. Would because if you if you knew my personality and and we're for what we're doing, we've there's probably a place for that, but what would be your take on that when you use you you being on this extreme of probably, like, well, fuck yeah. That that looks great. That's what I wanna see.
23
0,21:46,000 --> 0,25:05,000
Give me your feedback on something that extreme. So it it I'll I I will answer the question. It's sort of like people ask me, well, what do you think about my social media campaign? Or they'll say, what do you think about my advertising program? In this case, what do you think about my slogan? And and my answer will not satisfy. My answer is I don't know. And the reason I say that is because I need to have a clear understanding as to what your context is. It relates back to my previous, comments around what's the strategy? What are we trying to do here? What what exactly are you trying to achieve? And when I asked that question, the answer is is a strategic game plan format, right, that I had to create when I was running this data company and it gave me the focus to execute pristinely pristinely that I needed. Okay? It talks about how big do you wanna be, which is a declaration of your growth goals over the next 24 months. So it's a 24 month top line revenue view. 5 year plans don't exist because the 4th year never shows up. Okay? The hockey stick keeps going I think you're at 90. So Yeah. 2 years seems like an eternity out. Well, it is. And not well, if you can shorten it if you get look at it. If your world is to have something shorter, that's what you do. The point is the planning cycle has to match your capability to execute because the focus is not on the plan. It's on getting the plan just about right, executing it flawlessly, and learning from that execution as you go. Okay? So we spend time talking about that. The second question is who are you gonna serve? Where are you gonna get the money? I'm coming close to answering your question. No. No. I'm very I mine was mine was leading the witness a bit because a lot of people focus on that as their differentiator, their tagline, and so I'm I'm leading the witness just a bit. 2nd question, who are you gonna serve? Now this is critical. Alright? Like, the mass markets don't exist. Of course, where are you gonna get the money? And what I try and get people to do is select as few customer groups to serve as they can because you have, obviously, limited bandwidth in in energy, time, and resources to do the job. So you need to be really focused. And the and as you're doing that, the 3rd piece associated with that is what do they crave? Okay. My world is about cravings. It goes like needs, desires, cravings. That's Royce, Maslov's hierarchy. Alright? Because people buy on cravings. That's where the sweet spot is. If you can find that, you don't have any competition literally because nobody's thinking this way and it's price insensitive. Find out what the who craves. Right? Then the last piece says, how are you gonna be the only ones that do what you do in that craving space? Alright? If you discovered that your who, Thomas, was was was relentless about having people around them that gave a shit, then that's what you play into. Okay? So I would say the direct linkage between we actually give a shit. Right? I would be asking, alright, I wanna talk about what your who craves. Should tell me what they crave and if there's a relationship there, then I think you're on the right track. If there's not a relationship,
24
0,25:05,000 --> 0,25:59,000
then it might just simply be a gimmick that you think is cool. And if that's the case, it's not appropriate. So that's where I would Exactly. So so I think that's where I landed on. It was like, hey. It got attention and eyeballs, but I didn't see the next step strategically of where it aligned. Because we were Yeah. Definitely more in the marketing space. So that was kind of the idea is that we do things a little differently in our strategy. And the truth is we don't do things differently. What we do is we just execute with tenacity and as opposed to instant gratification, let's abuse AI world that we are living in. Now we were like, no, there's there's, you know, to build business, it doesn't change much. You just you can do it a little faster, you can do a little cleaner. So the idea is it wasn't really enabling a strategy. It was getting eyeballs and then what? And so that's where I pulled back on it. So I also don't want to limit half of an audience that would have picked And since then, we've picked up $2,000,000,000 clients. So probably it was the right decision. I look at I I love it. Okay. But but to be fair, to really understand
25
0,25:59,000 --> 0,27:59,000
in fact, there may be there may be more depth to that going through the process. Look at I just finished some work with a landscaping company. What do they do? They cut lawns and they weed. And they came to me and said, Roy, we need a strategy. We need we'd like to use your strategic game plan. So we sat down and and started working on it and got to the point where they decided that they wanna do that we call them up here stratas. I think you call them homeowner associations. That was gonna be their target. Right? And so now they're saying, alright. How what what what can we do that's special, right, for these homeowner associations? And I said, well what keeps them awake at night? Well, what keeps them awake at night is a strata council, okay, that that really wants the properties to continue to grow. Right? So that seems to be the craving for every one of these. And so at the end of the day, what we ended up doing was creating a strategy that that morphed their business away from being like traditional landscapers into being part of the property development scheme. Okay. And so so their their only statement was we're the only ones who provide solutions to Strata to help them, grow their property values. They're actually morphed from cutting lawns into property development as defined a very specific way. So it's an excellent example of how you can completely make a not just a pivot, but a breakaway ship into a different space. Just by looking at what do they crave, what do they crave, what keeps them up at night, That's what we wanna know. I don't care about their Internet service. I wanna know where they vacation. I wanna know in their income statement what keeps them up at night because maybe I can help them and play into that. And so that's the kind of process we use, and it's it's it it's lit some fires, man. It lit some No. I I like that. That that trigger on the emotional side. And and I whenever I do these kind of interviews, I try to relate it to kind of stuff I've actually worked on. 1, because I'm selfishly learning.
26
0,27:59,000 --> 0,29:23,000
This is, like, why I started podcast so I can get 1 hour as a consulting. It's true. So a micro mentoring. So we're gonna do my session. Goddamn it. Okay? We're doing this. But but so when we were at the actually give a shit, I'll I'll come back to that. Then then we were really doing just LinkedIn marketing. And since then, we've come definitely become much more of a growth strategy company. One of our initial tips of Spears is still LinkedIn because we know how to use it really well. But I'm actually considering going back to something, hey, we actually give a shit because there's other things at play, which is the cut the tie community. It's about helping entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. We do this through growth strategy. And if you want to I think the idea is a second line. You want to surround yourself with people who actually care, who actually want to make you successful. That's us. That actually has merit now to where we were. Before, it was just a gimmick for our marketing to seem different. Where my brand and my companies have shifted is really around enabling entrepreneurs to grow bigger, which is strategy plus, you know, health and things like that. So there's something I may revisit with that because it actually plays strategically into a bigger game that we have now for what we're doing. So you you you may be the missing link. We don't know that yet. Maybe I could go hiring after that. The caring piece is huge, and that's that's where I was gonna go with you. I'm sorry. You cut out there a bit. Oh, the caring piece is huge. Caring piece. Yeah. Okay. I mean, that's really what you're saying is is that, you know, we're in business,
27
0,29:23,000 --> 0,30:11,000
to care for people, in a way that matters to them. Being different is about caring for people in a way that they want. Right? So it's it's at that level. And now what you gotta do is be really granular in terms of defining the targets and getting granular in terms of specifics cravings and then taking the move and saying, alright, from a comms point of view, communications point of view, how can we best have a narrative that lines with that? Now some people may think, well, we care about you is kinda corny. Caring is more, I think, appropriately demonstrated than talked about. And so you can talk talk about giving a shit and that'll that allows you, right, the right to have a conversation around the caring strategy, because that is a valid strategy
28
0,30:11,000 --> 0,31:57,000
to actually say we care. Agreed. And and before, it would have just seemed disingenuine because we were a marketing agency. And so but now, you know, we have a a podcast. It's now top 5% globally on the subject, helping entrepreneurs and a 1000000 subscribers on YouTube. Right? So it's like, hey. This guy actually does give us like like, they can say that, like, with a straight face because there's other investments you get in, you know, so around it. And and, so the other part was the the thing we used to talk about, BE DiFFERENT, different is better. So I'd rather BE DiFFERENT than good or great at something. I just would rather BE DiFFERENT about how we solve a problem because then at least people go, well, I've tried all the other stuff. Let me try that. And and that bring but you have to actually deliver behind that statement if you do that. Yeah. I like the the way of difference. So, like, to extend that to our to how we did our organization, I I was like, I I'm out I'm hireable right now because I'm like, you know, quit your job. Use it as your angel investor without equity, basically. Basically, I'm hireable at this point. But I but I was like, but I have to build a company, so I don't wanna re flip it. And so I was like, alright. We're gonna make 4 day work weeks from the start. We're not gonna track time, only value a position deliverable. So if you can do your job in 2 hours of the week, you get paid the same as the person that takes 40. I don't care. That job's worth this. In the meantime, build side hustles that are noncompetitive, have a great time trial. And the team that we've built around that, because we did it differently, is thriving. Like, they they you know, of course, we wanna pay them more if we can, whenever we can do it. But the point being is I intentionally have set out to create a different kind of organization that's more human in nature, allows people to have happy lives because a third of their time is spent working. But I don't want them to feel like it's work. I want them to have fun with doing it. So, you know, I I'm I'm with you on this different or dead because I think you just end up like everybody else
29
0,31:57,000 --> 0,33:48,000
in your organization guys off too if it's not But you it look at it. It's caused by this incessant desire to do what academia has taught us. If everybody has taken the same courses, if everybody is listening to the same rules, how could you possibly be surprised if everybody turns out to be the same? I mean, it's just nonsensical. It's called strategic convergence. That's all it is. Right? Where everybody thinks that they're that they're they're they're playing a meaningful role. And you get all these people sort of around the glut of the normal distribution curve. Right? Where you where you wanna take them is you wanna shift them a little bit to the right. Right? Where they're starting to exercise, being imperfect fast. Right? Getting the plan just about right. Cutting the crap. Killing dumb rules. Hiring for goosebumps. Right? Cleansing the inside to improve the viscosity of the delivery machine. That's where you want them. You don't want them thinking that they can formulaize a freaking organization. My background is math. Do you really think that I solved the differential equation on my route to a billion? Hell no. All I did is taught me how to solve problems to use my head to realize that the practical things are the things that light fires in people. And if you can't light fires in people, they will not join your journey. And if they don't join your journey, you don't achieve. You die. That's as simple as that. But we're trapped in the inertia and the momentum of the past. And one of my biggest failings, because you you wanted to know 1, what what what is my biggest regret? I underestimated, and I still underestimate, the power of conventional thinking, the power of conformity. It's out there. It's like a virus. It's worse than COVID
30
0,33:48,000 --> 0,33:53,000
in the business world. Okay? You were Georgia, United States, we didn't have COVID. We we were k.
31
0,33:53,000 --> 0,33:56,000
Okay. Don't take me off. Georgia?
32
0,33:56,000 --> 0,35:43,000
I don't think if we had it or not. Because we just kinda were out. Want a virus, it's nonconformity. Let's spread that. Let's spread BE DiFFERENT or be dead. Let's spread Well, I think that's a change evokes change. And I'd love to get your take. So so I'll I'll make a statement of how how we we think about formal education. And so so when you go formal education, especially in US, at least lots of people incur tons of debt doing it because they're chasing the brand of some school, some kind of ideal of that. This is what you need for status. And and then the universities abuse that craving, so to speak, of status and youth and getting prepared for life with a 100,000 or $200,000 of student loan debt, which you can't ever do. For edgy for for jobs that likely don't even make that. And if they do, like, you know, you can't pay it off. It takes forever to pay it off. Like, you just cripple yourself, which means you're guaranteed to have to fit yourself right as a cog into the wheel of of working for corporations. And you've just been trained how to go do that. I'm of the school. Am I is that I want our kids to go for free or incredibly, like, low cost, just get a degree so you can learn some stuff. Right? Get a better general distribution outside of high school, but come out debt free. And then choose if you wanna go learn how to work for somebody to get enough skills to go try it yourself, or if you enjoy that, stay there. But it's your choice as opposed to being forced. I think one of the conformity pieces of being different is the thinking about how we approach education and work itself has to fundamentally change. You gotta really start thinking of things like how you organize HR and other businesses because, otherwise, you're just being there's churning it out. It's a machine at this point. The debt cycle plus expectations of status, this serving organization that's ready to accept it.
33
0,35:43,000 --> 0,36:41,000
It it's it's totally that way. And and look, I I ended up eventually not hiring, university students. I ended up hiring people that that that were coming out of technical institutions and practical institutions where they've actually got, a usable amount of information in their head and they were totally leaning in, right, to try and stuff and they weren't bound, etcetera. I don't I don't know that we're ever gonna get out of the cycle. I mean, as long as organizations value, a Harvard degree, and I'm not saying they shouldn't. Don't this is not really beating up on a good education. You need a good education. Okay. My stick is sooner or later when you're out there in the real world, you gotta realize that it's time to put the textbook down. And I talk about put the textbook down. What I mean by that is good. You hear you're here with with with some sort of,
34
0,36:41,000 --> 0,36:46,000
you know, development You showed up for 4 years. We know you'll show up to work today. Yeah. Yeah.
35
0,36:46,000 --> 0,37:40,000
Yeah. But it's it's time to to try some other really simple things that that people haven't told you are so effective in growing a business to a billion. That's kinda where I end up on this. Oh, what do you mean by that? Okay. Now we can have a conversation. But but the the the I don't know. But the value on that brand, that educational pin right now in in the business world is so strong is so strong that there's no incentive for people to not want it, to not covet that degree. And and I don't see that quite frankly changing anytime soon. Hopefully, we can nip away at it and and sort of drag people right into this kind of new space a little bit, and, and and have them feel the pleasure of achieving stuff in that world. But it's taking a long time, Thomas, and I'm I'm singularly disappointed
36
0,37:40,000 --> 0,38:53,000
in the, amount of progress that that we're able to make here. Yep. Agreed. And and I wanna show people your your book here, BE DiFFERENT or be dead, dotcom. Check this thing out. I think you should I maybe you have. I don't know if you've written the book, Higher for Goosebumps. That would be, like, a really good short you should do that one. I mean, like, I when you said that, I was actually that's why I went to your site. Like, does he actually have book? You should you should write a book like that because and it could be, like, one of those, like, ebook short. Like, hey. Listen. HR people, before you, you know and and you have you'd have to have a very specific target of, hey. You're, you know, HR of 1. You're about to go through an entrepreneurship. Instead of all this shit you learned, try this one. That's a great idea. I think you should have to do, like, maybe, like, you know, 5,000 word book, like, something you write this weekend. That's a great idea. Actually, go record all your freaking thoughts on the subject. I mean, with cuss words and anger and retribution and and just, like, outrage and throw baggers at a wall halfway through it, and and then let GPT go and take that and say, add nothing new to this, and then do it and say, now find some data that supports this and cite it, and then you got a book. It it's it's I think you can knock this one out over a weekend, 5,000 words. I could do that. That's a great idea. And as you were discussing it,
37
0,38:53,000 --> 0,38:57,000
my first thought was I'm going to provide GPT all my bullshit
38
0,38:57,000 --> 0,39:57,000
and just let it run. Oh, you should. That's how to do it. That's how to do it. You got plenty. I mean it. I this okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna BE DiFFERENT today. You have to do this. You're gonna go walk, and you're gonna go record. And I want I want angry Roy. I want the Roy that was told he couldn't make an investment when he knew it was the right thing, and he did it anyway. And he he was cussing out the board. He he was like, I'm gonna get fired. I don't care. It's all or nothing. If we want a billy, we're not doing it this way. I want that Roy. Not the Roy that's settled down now. The barely dream. It still works out. I want I want angry Roy. Well, you if you were talking to my wife, she would say, you've still got angry Roy. In fact, it's getting worse. She would not be with you, Drake. And she would be like, that's what I like about him. Jeez. But but listen, tell the stories, get the person I mean, you that's a great book. And I and I don't know who your target market is, but I bet you'd like to meet as many HR people that are in the, startup world as possible. So, Yeah. Well, you know, yes and no. I I I because I I actually think the target market for this would be would be literally any manager
39
0,39:57,000 --> 0,40:36,000
in a business, right, that hires people. Right. Okay? And and because the challenge will be both ways. It'll be in terms of the recruitment process, but it'll also be forcing the matter to to make it matter upstairs that says, hey. Look. We need to rethink strategy here. I think this is the TEDx talk is what I think. Yeah. Okay. We need a clearer view of of the the strategic importance of hiring for goosebumps. Why don't you give it to us, CEO? This is an important part. Right? And so maybe you get 2 things. You get validation that the strategy has to be morphed a bit, plus you get better guidelines for bringing people in that actually like people.
40
0,40:36,000 --> 0,40:58,000
Yep. I think that's I mean, unless you're simply running a process in the background that never interacts, which is, at that point, I'd argue why not automation, but, look, whatever. If you have any human interaction, and I mean even in internally, so process through this account owner. Yep. Then then goosebumps still works. But but sometimes there are people who just really are good at not talking to people and they just they're good at getting shit done.
41
0,40:58,000 --> 0,41:13,000
Let's let them be. That's fine. Tell about people who fine. I got I got no problem with that. Just get them in the right spot. Don't unleash them with my favorite asset called a human being that's paying me a transaction all the time. Keep them away. Put them in the cubicle. Let them run.
42
0,41:13,000 --> 0,41:27,000
You got no problem. No camera and mics for them. Nope. You're gonna be muzzled. Okay. Unless they got a good voice, then they can do that sexy voice guy about Ground podcast. There you go. Maybe it's, like, 1800
43
0,41:27,000 --> 0,41:35,000
no. Wait. 1 800 call capitata water. Call call Roy Osing. Oh, we're being silly.
44
0,41:35,000 --> 0,41:43,000
Roy, it's that time of day we have to do a shameless plug. I know you don't like telling people how to buy from you, but I'd like you to tell them anyway.
45
0,41:43,000 --> 0,42:55,000
So, I have a website, bedifferentorbedead.com. You just saw it. Come visit me. There's lots of content on that site. I've been blogging on this stuff since 09. So if you wanted to learn about Goosebumps, go to my blog and and, and search for Goosebumps and you'll find lots of stuff. I've written 7 books, in the BE DiFFERENT or Be Dead series. The latest of which you saw on my website which is, the audacious unheard of ways I took a startup to a 1,000,000,000 in annual sales. So you'll get information on that. Plus there's ebooks there on marketing and leadership and careers, etcetera. And the other thing is I have a, I've got an email. It's roy.osing@gmail.com, and I'm really happy to have a conversation with anybody on any subject. I mean, hell, I get them I get them every day on, hey, Roy. I've created my only statement. What do you think about this? Or, hey, I've done that. What do you think about that? And and I love that that engagement process. I really do. Because at the end of the day, helping people on the journey that are willing to go on the journey, that's really what it's all about for me. And so reach out. I'm always here for you. Appreciate that.
46
0,42:55,000 --> 0,43:14,000
No. I think you I think you'd I I will say buyer beware. You're gonna get a your baby may get called ugly or at the very least, your baby is dressed ugly. Some babies are ugly, but usually the parents are too. And so when so that's what you're actually doing when you call a baby ugly. Like, you're actually not that attractive. So
47
0,43:14,000 --> 0,43:29,000
Hey. You know what? In branding, I I have this expression. Look at it. You can put lipstick on a pig, and it's still a pig. And these are the organizations that think that change in name is gonna improve their competitive position without changing their strategy. What a joke.
48
0,43:29,000 --> 0,44:20,000
You you put lipstick on that puppy, it's still a pig. I thought there was pigs actually have lips? I thought that was a joke. Oh, I didn't know. I had no idea until you said that. No. I made it in I made it into that. I just, like No. I've made it I've heard that. I I I I'm not gonna go down around. It's we would go into a tangent. We'd probably talk about politics. And the next, you know, I'll start drinking again, and it'll be over. So, Roy, thank you so much for coming today. Guys, it's, you know, I'll put the banner up one more time for it. So, here's your email, roy.osing@gmail.com. If you get spam, not my fault. You shared it. And bedifferentorbedead.com, just like it sounds. Roy, thanks so much for coming on today. You rock. Hey. Listen. My pleasure. It's been an honor, and it's been fun. You did a awesome job, mate. Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, if I could just figure out a way to monetize it, we're gonna do a lot of great things. No. I'm kidding. Monetize.
49
0,44:20,000 --> 0,44:25,000
By the way, monetize thinking is another BE DiFFERENT or be dead idea
50
0,44:25,000 --> 0,45:47,000
that I'm working on. So there you go. Nobody's Oh, you're good. That's gonna be that's gonna be a second time coming back here. My Monetizing the cognitive process that lead degenerates into action. That's gonna be it. I like it. I got goosebumps. I'm gonna put you in the periwinkle room. I'll be right back. Roy, thank you so much for being our guest today. Anybody who made it to this point in the show, you rock. Seriously, like, you know, if this is your first time listening, I hope you come back. You know, we are on a mission to help entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship by cutting the tide, all the shit holding you back. And I do mean any thereof. You have fears. You have excuses. You have the senses of entitlement. You have toxic people. Sometimes it's just your former self you gotta let go. You got to move forward. And and if you're not an entrepreneur, this is a super healthy thing to do just to be better at life and your relationships is to cut the tide, all that little stuff that you don't need to, some belief systems that you're like, I'm not so sure about. And it it actually I'll I'll leave this as a challenge for anybody. Ask yourself one belief system you a 100% know is true, and then go question it in reality and see how true it really is. I bet you find that everything you can believe in, it can truly be challenged, and it'll make you think differently. It may not take you away from what you believe, but you may have a different perspective, which will help you grow, which is a form of, letting your letting yourself, you know, be more successful. But until we meet again, get out there, go and unleash an entrepreneur. Thanks for listening to the Never Been Promoted podcast.
51
0,45:47,000 --> 0:45:49,000
Thank you for listening to the Never Been Promoted podcast. If you liked today's show, subscribe at youtube.comforward/at never been promoted. Until next time. Get out there and go unleash your inner entrepreneur.