1
0,00:01,000 --> 0,00:32,000
Welcome to the Never Been Promoted, where we're all about helping you cut the tie to all that holds you back. The excuses, the fears, the people, that sense of entitlement. Cut the ties so you can unleash your inner entrepreneur. Your host, Thomas Helfrich, is on a mission to make more entrepreneurs in the world and make them better at entrepreneurship.
2
0,00:32,000 --> 0,02:07,000
Hey. Welcome back to Never Been Promoted. Hi. I'm Thomas Helfrich, your host. We are gonna be talking about why you should not grow to a $1,000,000 marketing agency, which is ironic. We recently did the post of how to grow to your first million in sales. So we're gonna go the other way with that. We're gonna talk about lifestyle business and, particularly in the marketing world with Trey Boden, who's the founder of Roar LLC. And Roar is not a Katy Perry. It is a Katy Perry song, but that's not what that was not his inspiration when he started this. If this is your first time here, I always try to talk about the mission of what we're trying to do here at Never Been Promoted, which is to help a million. Nah. Ask her. Just help millions of entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship by cutting the tide to all the shit that's holding you back. That's right. The excuses, the fears. That sense of entitlement like the world owes you anything, it does not it doesn't know anything. Just just get past it. But, also, maybe some people in your life and probably that number one person because I know the person I had to kinda exit was myself. Sometimes you have to grow up a little bit and change and get better. So that's our mission. If you do have a a few moments, you know, and you do like the content, it really means a lot to, the guest and the rails. Just go to no promoted dotcom. Check out some of the content there, but definitely subscribe at youtube.com@neverbeenpromoted. We go live a lot. We got a lot of, good content that's coming out, and it continues to push out. So check it out. And if you listen to the podcast, 5 star reviews is why we've gotten maybe the top 5% globally here in less than a year. Little clap. If I had a cool sound effect, I'd play it, but I don't. Alright. Next. Enough. Shameless promotion. Let's bring in, mister Trey
3
0,02:07,000 --> 0,02:23,000
to the stage. How are you? I'm great. How are you? And Katy Perry, the the roar song is it's it is lore. So, like, in the roar world, people, they just start singing it when they hear our names. So They do. I just I just adopt it. I like that
4
0,02:23,000 --> 0,02:26,000
song. It's like eye of the tiger, but not
5
0,02:26,000 --> 0,02:30,000
Yeah. It could be our our pump up, you know, music for sure.
6
0,02:30,000 --> 0,02:41,000
Thanks for joining today, by the way. I appreciate the company. I'm stoked. I love to I love to tell people when they get into the streamer that it's live. You didn't flinch. You're just like, of course, it is.
7
0,02:41,000 --> 0,02:49,000
Yeah. I mean, I used to be a teacher. So, like, acting in front of a live audience, I don't know what I'm doing is, was was just kind of a thing.
8
0,02:49,000 --> 0,03:52,000
Hopefully, this audience listens better than than than being a teacher. Because I'm pretty sure if I was your student, I wouldn't have listened. Oh, I taught all the cool classes, though. I I taught video production, graphic design, you know, all all the stuff that kids actually liked listening to. Okay. I would have listened to that. That would have been fun. I would have showed it. It was it was a blast. Middle school and high schoolers. I I would have been in the front of that class, not the back. Yeah. It was pretty fun. For sure. Here here's the here's here's here's my icebreaker scenario. I like to find one occasionally here. Let's go. And this is a true story. So I learned how to play craps in architectural CAD class at the back. This guy and I, you know, in high school, we would just roll dice while the teacher was teaching, and we would just gamble the entire thing. And what what do you I there's no way he didn't see it happening. Sure. What do you do in that scenario when you see and I got I had an a in the class. So let's just say I was an okay student. I like, what he was talking about was more like how to use the computer, and I was like, I figured that out. What do you do though on that if you see 2 kids clearly not paying attention and gambling?
9
0,03:52,000 --> 0,04:17,000
Well, so the thing is is that you as a teacher, you have to kinda, like, master the look is what I call it. Like, no one necessarily wants the jerk teacher. You want to be that teacher that's, like, the the one that's respected, and all you have to do is give them the look. And that look is, like, oh, wow. I'm losing face with this teacher now, and I feel horrible about it. So it's a simple just
10
0,04:17,000 --> 0,04:56,000
It's the so what do you do right now? You're giving me a look? Mhmm. Do you do you do a slight shake? Like Yeah. That's it. I just look at them and I think I I do recall one day that all of a sudden we both noticed that the entire class is quiet, and he all he says, we're waiting on you. I'm like Oh, yeah. My all I said to him was, like, to hit my point. No doubt. That's that's a that is a good one too for sure. To be clear, I didn't do do did do one more role because I was trying to hit my point, and I was Yeah. And so I said and I said to to hit my point, and he thought it was funny. I think he played craps, and I think he I have no idea how to play craps, so that's that's, that's not We'll take that offline.
11
0,04:56,000 --> 0,05:22,000
Not don't don't start because if you like it, you're gonna need a $1,000,000. I the the closest I get to gambling is when my family gets together, my mom's side of the family. We buy, like, 100 of dollars of scratchers at the beginning of a week of a family reunion, and then we keep just cashing them in. And we do it usually, like, 10 o'clock at night. So you can imagine that gas station employee that we go and buy $900 worth of scratchers at 10 o'clock at night. He's like, who the heck are these people?
12
0,05:22,000 --> 0,05:29,000
You know what? That sounds like fun. Oh, it's so much fun. Anybody put anybody like, I I think, like, hey. Listen. We're we're gonna raise a $1,000,
13
0,05:29,000 --> 0,05:55,000
and then we're gonna pool all the money we make. And whatever your percentage of that 1,000 is, you get Yeah. If you put a 100 in, you get 10% of the winnings. Yeah. And you get to choose every night. When we're in our family reunions, you could choose every night if you wanna cash out or if you wanna go take everything you win and and put it in. And it's it's fun. We all walk away with a little bit more money than we started with most of the time. My grandfather is the one who always wins, though. Like, 1500, $2,000
14
0,05:55,000 --> 0,06:42,000
every time on a scratcher. Like, not every time, but one one thing you're doing to it. I think you should pool the money in. Yeah. To say, okay. We have a 1,000 in. We did. We just divide up the pool at the end. Because if you if you hit, like, a 100,001, come on. Hey. Come on. Let's go. You know, everyone's like, can you guys get on to the marketing part? No. We will. People. Patience. We'll get there. Patience. We're gonna talk about you have a different approach. So let let let and we're gonna we're gonna I'm gonna lead to where we're going. We're gonna talk about you you consciously made a decision to just build a company that's enough, And and that's like seems like like that like like a a a book talk about that, like the Bible or something. Like, it's just enough. What's enough? Anyway, but we're not getting into that, people. We're not just I've watched watched the user account.
15
0,06:42,000 --> 0,06:45,000
I'm I'm waiting for the alter call. Just kidding. Oh,
16
0,06:45,000 --> 0,06:56,000
but, like, the truth is you said, like, I think this is enough. Now that might change in the future, but right now, you've taken the idea that I'm not trying to build, you know you know, a $100,000 AR MRR business intentionally.
17
0,06:56,000 --> 0,06:58,000
If it happens,
18
0,06:58,000 --> 0,07:14,000
awesome. But I'm not gonna go bust my ass in, you know, miss family reunions or do things. So before we kinda get there, do you wanna start with you said you're a teacher. Drop back far enough where it makes sense to talk about your journey a bit and what which kind of maybe some key points you learned on the way, and I will definitely interrupt you eventually. It's gonna be Yeah. So,
19
0,07:14,000 --> 0,07:51,000
the long and short of it is is I I thought I was always gonna be a pastor all my life, actually. That was my, my intended career path, and I was and I did that for 5 years, at a church here in Atlanta. I'm from Atlanta, 4th generation Atlantan, so it's pretty pretty rare to be that. Is it a Lantonian or Lantian? I don't know. I say Atlantian. Right? You're from here. I'm from I'm a I'm from north of the Mason Dixon line. Yeah. Yeah. So I I came down. Yeah. Yeah. Well, after 5 years, I I decided to because I went I went to school at Clemson and for my MRS,
20
0,07:51,000 --> 0,07:58,000
met my wife the second second night I was principal. Was it MRS or MR MR degree? It's an MR figure.
21
0,07:58,000 --> 0,08:00,000
What? I don't even know what that means.
22
0,08:00,000 --> 0,08:17,000
Well, you you went there for an MRS degree is Meaning my wife, MRS. That's what I went down. For the MRS. Oh, that's true. That's true. You would go for the MR degree. Whatever. I mean, I don't know. I'm not I'm not judging your relationship how it's set up. Exactly. I I feel like I just judged a little bit by questioning your MRS status. It'd be an MR status.
23
0,08:17,000 --> 0,10:25,000
Yeah. So we met so we moved back to Atlanta. I was in a pastor at a church, for for 5 years, and then, after that, one of the things I decided is I I really wanted to be in, I decided a career in education, for a lot of different reasons, and ended up moving to a high school, pre k through 12 school in North Atlanta, that honestly wasn't, like, no one knew this school from from, you know, even within the neighborhood, about 12, 13 years ago. And after, I was there, and this is this is because of an entire team of people. We became known as one of the most innovative schools in the country, and a lot of that had to do with repositioning the school. And I really loved that process of brand building. I thought that would have that was just amazing. And I was like, what if I could do that for other companies? Like, what what would that look like? And, I never thought I'd own my own business. My dad was an entrepreneur, my grandfather's entrepreneur, and I watched them, like, work until 6 months before they died, and I was like, I don't want that to be me. And they always lived beyond their means, and it was all competitive and all this stuff that I didn't wanna be a part of. Long and short of it is is I found myself facing this this opportunity of, like, what if I created my own creative agency? And I took the leap in, 2022, to to make it happen, and, and so that's what we do. So we're a fractional marketing company, that we mostly focus in on the bottom to mid funnel type of marketing and also referral and sales enablement. That's that's kind of where we fit the best. We don't do a lot of spray spray and, spray. That's a whole another type of marketing, But spray and pray, approach, we do much more like rifle shot type of marketing, really trying to go after small total accessible markets and helping promote amazing companies doing great things. That's a little bit of our story.
24
0,10:25,000 --> 0,11:39,000
I think for for clarity of you know, people hear the word funnel a lot, and and then and to me, it's it it can mean so much. I mean, it's it's clear what it is, but but where you people sit within it and their, you know, in the types of business, some people should never do spray spray and paint. Spray, man, why can't you even say I can't we say it. I can't say it. You can't say it? Because today is Tuesday, a day after a holiday, and it is a bastardized Monday effectively. True. So no one's operating at full capacity. That's right. Fully Fully. Spray and pray. Yep. You know what it is. It's your religious kind of background that that doesn't want you shouldn't use the word pray when you say spray and pray. And they're like, it's getting, like, stop. Stop. Like, you're getting tripped up. Now you're the power of the Daleville's pushing us through to say pray in that word. What? The Daleville I could've been such a good pasture, I think. Yeah. No. Okay. Spray and pray. What who shouldn't, who should not do that? And we're and and I wanna give advice to someone listening. If you're this type of business, you should absolutely be doing this kind of cold email outreach. Go spammy. K. Who who who should be doing that type of really high up in the funnel, don't know anybody, throw it on the wall, see who sticks type of marketing. I think it's people with really big budgets
25
0,11:39,000 --> 0,13:02,000
that that's willing to play the numbers game. That's I think that's really important is to be be willing to play the numbers game. Realizing that, like, hey. Your conversion rate is going to be low, which means you've got to pay to buy eyeballs. And so for some companies, that works really well. So if they have a really high sales number, right, so, like, if there's someone with a $30,000 service product, then spray and pray actually might make sense, if the conversion makes sense. But unfortunately, I think that to me, at some level, that type of approach, has, minimized what I think is real authentic and good marketing, which is around, hey, just do right by your customers, and do good with your product, be better for people, and trust that that new leads are gonna come in, and market what you do for customers and your solutions. And I think that particularly for companies that, you know, that have a smaller, service fee and or they're a smaller product and they don't have big budgets, why waste time on a $500 a month budget? Now I think eventually when you get into some space, like, responsive Google display ads might make sense, but the truth is is, like, I just I think that we've just forgotten good old fashioned marketing.
26
0,13:02,000 --> 0,14:09,000
Yeah. I well, I think you're you're nailing it there a bit too because, I think a lot of people don't really know who they serve. It's it's probably the thing. So part part of part of it is, especially when you're when you haven't nailed down your solution to a market that you serve, you waste a lot of money marketing to try to figure it out. And that's part of the process. Sometimes you're just trying to figure it out. Right? Who for example, when we first started Instant Relevant, I was a 100% sure that coaches on LinkedIn could use our services to help them use LinkedIn better, do this, and I was right. What I found though is those coaches that we were specifically going for had no money to pay for it. Sure. And so what marketing discovers for you is, yes, right solution, problem, idea, wrong demographic financially, then you pivot. And and I think this is what a lot of people do when they forget about it. And and then instead of taking that extra moment of learning why or changing 1 or 2 variables in their experiment, you you know, that that's where you go wrong. So when you're down a little lower and you're doing rifle, you're you're basically working with companies that know who they serve. They know what they do for them. And then you're like, we're gonna just go after them through whatever channels make sense for pay per click ads or
27
0,14:09,000 --> 0,14:49,000
demand value creation and things like that through social media posts, whatever else. Right. And direct mail. Like, we'd have a lot of fun with direct mail. Fat mail is is a lot of fun to design, really cool experiences, that keep people, like, unforgettable, and so we've we've done a lot of that, a lot of paired, like, LinkedIn type approaches with video, has been really helpful for a lot. Like, 2 of our clients, for example, they can call the if they wanted to call everyone in their total accessible market, they could probably do it in 3 months. Right? It's a small accessible market, and and we we love working with customers like that.
28
0,14:49,000 --> 0,16:08,000
And I think when you think about us, if if you're a owner of a business, fill in the blank, any type any type, really, from services to product, you do need to align your marketing agency to what they do really well, to what you're trying to do. So if you're like like you said, you have a lot of budget and it could be high volume. Like, we just need to touch as many people as possible because our acquisition costs are you're just trying to exceed your acquisition costs with the the the the profit. Right? It's like it's a numbers game, like you said. But if you're like, hey. Listen. We try to stay on brand. We only wanna help this specific demographic with this type of thing, whatever it is. You need to find an agency who knows how to do that because those are completely different agencies that do that well. And I think what you just described and and going back to, like, why you don't want a $1,000,000 agency, one, it's a lot of work. Once you cross over that half No doubt. Mark, and you're like the solopreneur that leads a team, holy cow. Like, the workload goes up exponentially per 100 k you make above it. And and and I know what you mean with this because it's like, oh, boy. Like, what am I gonna do with that? So when you find an agency that's really niched where you are and you're saying, listen. I wanna stay small because I want time for family. I wanna go time and do other things. I I just I guess advice out there, just to line up to somebody who's kind of morally and, you know, kind of coded into what you're trying to accomplish in your business so they're accomplishing yours. And maybe you see that in your business as well?
29
0,16:08,000 --> 0,17:31,000
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, I think that one of the most powerful things that someone told me early on was be clear about who you're not. Not just who you are, but who you're not. And so we know really early if a customer is is, you know, hey. Listen. You know, we really want someone to run our, you know, Google Ads campaigns and all this sort of thing. We're like, look. That's just it's not us. We we can build really simple ones, for you. And but the truth is is, like, if you really want someone to do that, we've got good partners that we can refer to. But, if really what you're looking for is is sales enablement, referral marketing, the bottom of the funnel, like, I mean, I think that one of the things that people do not put enough investment into is measuring what is actually converting your clients in that bottom part of that funnel, and how do you really tool those things. Yeah. And, I find that people leave a lot of money on the table because they don't they don't think about it because it's that's the speed of business. The nice thing about top top of funnel marketing, like, it it at some level can become passive. You don't have to necessarily think about it. Whereas, if you're tooling your sales deck and being really prescriptive about that, that's a whole another level, and it's real time because you are you're messing with things that you're constantly putting in front of your customers. And so,
30
0,17:31,000 --> 0,19:11,000
that's that's the work that we really love to do. Yeah. That's I mean, that's I'll give you a pointed example. I try to not autobiography, but we give it, like, even with never been promoted is we get more brand recognition from followers and global podcast rankings. I still take 15 minutes to meet with any guest. 1, because I'm pretty sure I've met a serial killer. I don't know if I well, I think I tell a wild story. No. You didn't tell me that story. Oh, I'm not gonna tell that story enough because he because he or she may be listening. They didn't make it on the podcast. But, anyway, so the point is I I may they were filmed. You know? I do that for 1. But second, you know, I wanna find people who wanna buy into the community, and I found that if I don't take 15 minutes to talk about our mission and they get to know me a little bit, you know, they don't buy in to the idea. It's not that they don't get it. They just they never had the opportunity to. So I found that, like, that bottom of the funnel is like, hey. I'm about to go put someone on a podcast, and I'm pretty sure that's gonna be around 5 years from now, and you're gonna be a big part of that because you'll be, like, one of the older pieces, and you'll have this pagination and all this other stuff. I need to take that investment of 15 minutes. And and you're right because at that last sale, I was like, here's just the link. And not only did it create less quality of people, but also people less aligned to what we're trying to do. And and, you know, and I think that's super important when you're when you're doing this is that you know the last few steps of why someone's gonna buy. But then what's what's gonna happen next? Right? And I think if you're at a sales deck or it's a meeting or whatever, know that that little extra effort right there also sets up your referral system behind the scenes. So it's I so do you guys work on the referral piece too from the, like, the downstream marketing? Oh, yeah. I know we're super weak on that. Once we're there, it's kinda like
31
0,19:11,000 --> 0,19:51,000
Yeah. It with, hey. By the way, you know, it's like, I I don't. I need to, but Yeah. I don't need to. Email either. I should. Well, I think it's another example of, like, newsletters, for example. A lot of times when people think about newsletters, they think about their their, you know, generating these new, like, emails and stuff like that to add into it. I'm, like, look, you already have an amazing email list. Right? And that is your your your current and past clients, and how do you communicate your value ongoing to those people is a really small thing that can actually reap a lot of reward. But, yeah, I think that I think that too many of us leave a lot of money on the table because we don't think about that referral side either.
32
0,19:51,000 --> 0,21:57,000
Alright. Do you know a Beth Beth Bates? You put your name out there. Just tell Trey that serial killer story so we can share with our team. Here we go. So Beth is one of our project designers. So Alright. Beth, I'm gonna tell the story. And here we go. Can I can I hijack the the conversation here? Please ask questions along the way. So in our first few days, we would just have people you know, you first start a podcast and you're like, who's you don't think anyone's gonna sign up on? I'm just like, oh, let's throw it out there. It's a 1,000,000 podcasts. No. There's actually, like, 4,000,000 podcasts, but, throw it out there. This this this guy gets on, and he he's like, hey. I'm, you know, he's on the show, so we're recording whatever else. I'm like, hey. Nice to meet you. I'll leave his name off, but, I was was like, tell me about what you're working on. He's like, oh, you know, I started this kinda podcast myself to help people with PTSD, you know, and because he's like, I got out of the army, and it was really hard. And I was like, oh, okay. This is like that's good for you. And he's like, you know, he's got a daughter now, and and it's really kinda she's like, you know, she's a few months old. And I'm like, okay. I like this. This is like a really and and and so he was a little nervous, whatever else. I was like, alright. Well, you know, when you're not doing your podcast, what do you like to do on the weekends is kind of the icebreaker question. Okay. And he said, oh, I I, you know, I like to drive to small towns and look for the pedophiles to kill. And I said, okay. This guy's got dark humor. Let's go with this. It's like Time to exit. Well, no. At this point, I just thought he was been like he was kinda like he was kind of a funny guy and, like, you know, like this, but then then he kinda got he he did it like dead faced, like dead panned. And I was like, alright. Like, I like like I like a little edge humor. Alright. Well, I was like, well I go, who wouldn't wanna be Dexter? Right? And I said, alright. So but how do you how do you how do you know? He's like he he kinda just literally looked right, and he's like, oh, oh, you know. And I was like, ah, alright. He's going with this a little further. I'm like, alright. Well, how many have you gotten? And he was just quiet, and he starts sobbing. And for about 2 minutes 2 minutes, like, he started, like like, was tearing and fighting it back knowing that he's on a camera right now. And he and I am at work because I realized,
33
0,21:57,000 --> 0,22:01,000
oh, shit. Yeah. Time time to time to leave.
34
0,22:01,000 --> 0,23:57,000
I was like, okay. But, no, you can't just leave because you don't know what the criteria is. Uh-huh. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I gotta get the criteria out of the guy. And so I was like, alright. And he goes he's like, just you know, this is a lot of bad people out there and, you know, and and he kinda came back, and I was like I was like and he's like I and he kinda went into it. It's like, I was abusing a child, and I was like this. And and I I I and I and I was like, you know, I go, this is part of the p and we had a conversation that kinda moved away from that to PTSD anyways doing it, and his daughter, and I was like, and so this ended up being, like, a 2 hour conversation till I got the you know? And so by the way, I it it they have wire rim glasses. You're you're okay, Trey. You got you got darker ones. And they look creepy. It was basically all sum up how he did it. And I was like, alright. Anyway and so I did tell him afterwards, listen. I really appreciate you sharing. I think what you're doing is you're on a journey. Keep working through it. There's a lot of people I'm sure identify with you or Dexter. And, and I and I said basically, like, at the end of it, I was like, but I can't air this because it's you may have commit you may have admitted to committing a complaint. Yeah. Or at least people may suspect. He's like, I get it. He's like, I appreciate you just listening and talking to me for a couple hours. I was like, awesome. I hope the guy does well. I haven't I haven't really kept up in touch with him. So Spooky as hell right there. Guys, screen your guests for the command. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Trey passed. Hope I hope, I'm glad I did. I'm glad. Yeah. Beth Bates, I I since I'm putting your name out there in the context of that story, because you asked there you go. That's it. Alright. Back to it. Alright. We're gonna we're gonna come we're gonna come back to point. You don't wanna build a $1,000,000 agency, but it's not like it's not your intent. Nope. But you would if you found 6 clients that I'll give you, I don't know, 200 k a year to do what you do.
35
0,23:57,000 --> 0,25:07,000
You you, you go I mean, may I mean, maybe. You're not gonna say no to that. Right? You're like, no. No. That's gonna I don't know. So and and some of it is is around that even the thing that you talked about in the beginning is, like, identifying, like, what is that that term of enough. Right? And so, I'm really inspired by a group that's out there called Faith Driven Entrepreneurs that are awesome. They're just it's a it's a organization, tons of great curriculum, fantastic group. And, I was listening to their podcast about a year ago and, they had a group of people that just decided that, like, they would cap their salaries and be, like, anything above this and and also cap their revenue, anything above this that they would just give away, you know. And so, I mean, some of it is is I just I don't I don't need that much money. Like, that's not and and and be and this is why, like, people in the creative industry when I start talking about this, I'm, like, I don't know who said it. I can't remember the the recording artist in the nineties who said it, but mo money, mo problems. I believe in that. Right?
36
0,25:07,000 --> 0,25:11,000
Like, I don't I believe with that Mo. Yeah, right. Mo Money Mo Problems.
37
0,25:11,000 --> 0,26:52,000
It might be The Cory is B. I. G. Yeah. That's me. Okay. Yeah. Right? And like, so, Mo Money Mo Problems. And I so, like, for me, like, I can't imagine having more, like like, I am blessed in the life that I have, you know, and I don't know if I necessarily would want more. What I would love to be able to do is to focus on less clients eventually, so I think that that's interesting. But, for me, like, I I just I love, you know, when I when I first started, I asked one of my friends who, owns a company here in Atlanta, another marketing company. They became this monster powerhouse over, 5, 10 years. They're called Marketwake here in Atlanta. Huge, awesome company run by 2 talented women. One of them is well, she's she's no longer there anymore, but she's one of my good friends from high school. And I asked her, like, what advice do you have for me? And she said, I think one of the most important things that I didn't ask myself from the beginning is do I want to have an agency of scale, or do I want to have an agency of lifestyle? And that was eye opening for me, and I said, look, that's what I want. I want an agency of lifestyle. I'd I I came from a school environment, you know, that during COVID and all sorts of different things, it was stressful. I didn't want that stress. I didn't want that anxiety. And so, that's kind of where I decided was I didn't want I didn't want that. And so, that that was that's part of it. And asking that question, what's enough? Right? And and for me, like, where I'm at right now is actually enough.
38
0,26:52,000 --> 0,29:06,000
And you're you'll have times where you're gonna have stress because of that. Because if you lose a planner, you gotta go hunt. You're like, you know? So you gotta have reserves. You gotta have some Sure. Plan with it. And and and to give you example, right, we limit our customers to around 20 a month because I have so much of my time not on never remote on instantly relevant side because it just takes for me to do it well, I feel like we get 20, I can't give the thought process enough to it to really justify it. That's right. Now we have some products that kinda don't need my time, and that's fine. But if I really have, like, kind of more of the higher end customers, I I I don't have much, you know, just I don't have the bandwidth mentally to do it for them, and I need to be. But that also tells you to pivot your company sometimes too. So we started verifying agencies like yours because I'm like, I need a service that adds value to your world and the rest of the world to help entrepreneurs pick better marketing agencies and helps me be able to refer better agencies. And it also doesn't require my time. It's a process that runs. And it's that's the idea of the lifestyle is like, I'd rather have a smaller business that, like you said, less than a1000000, fine. Like, enough to pay mortgages and go on some family trips and save a little, but allows me free time to do more never been promoted, I'll I'll sign up for that day all day long. I mean, that that is the lifestyle I'd rather be is. Yeah. No doubt. Help entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. And if we can make money doing that, that's awesome. We wanna do that. By the way, you have to make money to be able to help people. That's right. You really do. That's true. Everybody thinks you don't, like, churches make money. Yeah. But they don't they can't help people. That's true. And I I think people should understand that. Like, if you think that you should get things for free, you're gonna get less quality stuff over time. Unless it's Timu. I mean, the whole thing you can you can hijack Timu. My kids get more free shit from Timu. I don't know how they do it. Man, I I don't I don't understand that whole that whole thing. But It's alright. We don't want you to. We want you to focus on your let me ask him. So, trends in marketing. Let's let's pivot just a second. So so the AI picks up this new topic. Trends in marketing, where do you see some of the most impactful, either positive or negative trends? And they'll they'll be like, a AI. Like but if there's specifically or something around AI or something, like, what what where do you see, like, either a big problem
39
0,29:06,000 --> 0,31:33,000
or this is actually really changing the game in in in your world? Yeah. I mean, well, you brought up AI, so I'll talk about it. I use it all the time. The thing that I cannot stand is marketers who use it and then immediately apply it. And I think that that's one of the biggest dangers that I think we're facing right now is, that it's such a new toy right now, and we wanna immediately put it into our business. Right? And so, for me, I think that what what I'm I'm wrestling with the most right now is how do I use this to how do I use tools like chat or Midjourney to help me in the generative side of it, which is what it was intended to be, in order for me to save, you know, costs and COGS or or whatever. But the thing is is too many marketers are just utilizing this stuff and putting it out online and putting it out there, and I can spot it like nobody's business. When I start seeing people put a copy about, like, being thrilled about something, I was like, y'all just use chat g p t to generate that. In the tapestry of life. Imagine. Right. And it's lazy. That's my thing. Is is it's like I I actually am really excited about some of this replacement that that automation is going to be doing. I know that's super, like, whatever, but because I think that creatives have become such a dime a dozen right now, and marketers have become such a dime a dozen because the tools have helped them hide expertise. And because of that, man, like, I think that really the the marketers are gonna still be around 10 years from now. They they realize that the expertise doesn't come from the production work that you make. Right? If you're a logo artist right now, if you're a graphic designer, if you're not leveraging AI in order to and understand how it's going to impact your job, then you're, you're way behind the 8 ball right now. And so I don't, I mean, I see a day when logo work, like, the only reason why you're gonna pay someone, you know, $40,000 to build you a logo at that point is because you want it hand done. Whereas, you know, I think that a lot of, like, small businesses are gonna be turning to logo work for AI modeling instead, which all power to them. That's great. You know?
40
0,31:33,000 --> 0,32:08,000
There's an argument made, though, with the logo brand in particular, I think, where this is is that because you can't trademark or copyright anything from AI at this point That's right. You may need to use AI for the ideation part of it and a human to take the next piece. Mhmm. But the flip side of that is, when does AI say, hey. You can't use anything like this trademark because so so there's there's I think my background being kind of this intelligent automation AI area, I I I will constantly say this and I will not defer from this, that these technologies need to accelerate us, not replace
41
0,32:08,000 --> 0,32:10,000
A 100%.
42
0,32:10,000 --> 0,33:11,000
And and what I what I mean by that is do not confuse automation with AI. So AI is held there to help you think faster, more clearer, point get ask questions you didn't know you should've asked. Like, that's the thing you should ask in the AI. Like, what's the question I should ask but I didn't? Mhmm. And that's how you use AI. Automation is a whole different game, and and I'm not gonna go into that. But the point being is don't confuse those 2. Automate things that should be automated, not thinking that are repetitive. They're task based. They just they they there's no decisions to tip them. AI should be using you to help you be better. And you see this, by the way, if you were to, like, draw two lines parallel, the people who really understand their space are like hockey sticking up productivity because they know how to use AI to make that go faster and be better. The people who don't really know their space or or misusing it think they're getting better, but relative to what the people who really know, there's a massive gap. Yeah. And I think that that's where there's gonna be a little bit of a collapse of the creative class right now, and is is in that, because I think that these tools are so easily accessible at this point. I mean, watching what Premiere is going to do when it comes to video editing is just crazy.
43
0,33:11,000 --> 0,33:24,000
Right. And I think that what that's gonna do is it's gonna show people's cards around, like, oh, wait. I'm not necessarily really an expert in marketing. I just know how to use tools, and
44
0,33:24,000 --> 0,34:22,000
I think that Wait. Wait. So from a creative standpoint, let me throw this out at you. So you you went through our our application process, and there's a lead video that I don't maybe you watched it, and I I don't really track it. Yeah. But you did. And it was it's underproduced. Right? It's just me talking to the camera. When I produced it, the the amount of sponsorships people took on plummeted. Actually, the applications plummeted. We over I made a really nice video with good, and it was like and to me, it's like it's like a really nice video. It wasn't any difference in the words. It's the exact same words, but it came across more sales y. And people in that spot said, and when I said, you know what? Let me just put a video of me talking to somebody. No music. Nothing. Just to just like, listen. Hey. This is what's about to happen. Here's what it is. Just pick your path. Kinda and that underproduction had a high I mean, it was noticeable. Like, really, oh my god. What happened? And I and so the point being is I think in the future, sometimes, I think underproduced just with good quality of camera and out audio will be have higher value because it will be real.
45
0,34:22,000 --> 0,34:29,000
Yeah. Authenticity. Right? Like, that's that that authenticity is the thing that transcends the screen more than anything. Yeah.
46
0,34:29,000 --> 0,34:46,000
I agree. And and how so how do you take authenticity, though, and produce it so it's not overproduced? I guess that's the question to you because I don't know how to do it. So we're either, like, bare bones or we we overdo it. I can't find the middle ground. Yeah. And I think some of it is is really understanding
47
0,34:46,000 --> 0,36:17,000
well, one of it is is I think it's it's personality. Right? And so I think that anyone can can spot an imposter on on on a screen pretty easily. You know, like, I I think that one of the things that make one of the reasons why clients choose to work with us has a lot to do with the trust and the confidence that I bring into into conversations. Like when people say, like, well what do you actually sell? It's like trust and confidence that I actually will do the work, you know, like that's some of it. But the other part of it is is is that I have some really clear values that I'm very afford about. About. It's not just faith values, it's things like bravery, courage, humility, like, these things of, like, are through and through of who I am, and I carry them with me everywhere I go. And so I think that some of that is just that that presence on the on the camera that transcends production value. Right? Now audio is really important. It should sound good, and when you're meeting all the time like this, like, it's important to invest in these things to make people feel like you're actually with them, but ultimately I think that because of, I think a lot of this is because of post pandemic of, like, we're used to being on Zooms with crappy video, like, people make that that's that's just part of how we engage now, and so I think that the production value doesn't necessarily matter as much, as it used to back in, you know, the the odds and the tens.
48
0,36:17,000 --> 0,37:01,000
Well, I'll challenge you on this, though. Okay. You're in marketing see. In particular or you're selling something. I I don't wanna buy something from somebody who has holes in the wall behind them. Oh, yeah. No doubt. And I and I've told people so so from some different cultures, like, you know, you're in your home. I get it. I go, but you should be throwing up a green screen or clearing out one wall so the green screen works well. Because I love what you're saying, but I'm distracted by the fact that that that I I'm not sure you're gonna be around as or, you know, I mean, I don't know what's going on. Like and and it's like, I'm not you're not trying to judge, but the truth is you're gonna and I'm telling, like, you're gonna get judged because you just live where you live. And and I'm not I think that's Sarah was, but my point was, like, but you really know your space, and you're limiting your sales by not presenting a more professional
49
0,37:01,000 --> 0,37:02,000
Sure.
50
0,37:02,000 --> 0,37:22,000
Like, you know and he's like, oh, I didn't think about that. I was like, I know because that's your world. Like, that's just normal. Like, you're it's a normal thing, but you're trying to sell to United States who's judgy as hell. Yeah. And opinionated and draws conclusions on your capability based on the fact that you have a crack in your wall, which has nothing to do with you. As everything you think, you live in a place that has lots of earthquakes.
51
0,37:22,000 --> 0,38:24,000
Sure. And and I think one of the things you're talking about there is intentionality. Right? And so I I wrote about this to my customers this past month was was everything behind me is intentional. Everything. You know, everything from this work hard and be nice to people, this sign that's up here by Anthony Burrell, it's amazing. It's print work. I love it that it's handmade, but that's a real value that I have, right, to the fact that I care about you knowing that, like, I love comic books. I want a little comic book back there, and I switch it every now and then, right? Or coffee, like, this is intentional. It starts so many conversations when you have an espresso machine right there that's that's sitting right there. It's a it's a it's a moneymaker. That cool ass logo. Come on. Oh, yeah. My logo. Right? You know? Popped off from review. I've just by noticing them might come down a little bit so I can see the whole thing. Anyway, move there. Yeah. And also the Labrador. Yeah. Well, Charlie, she she's asleep behind me, but, and sometimes I have other dogs that randomly show up and become mascots in the, in the Zoom. People drop them off, and they just come through the door. You know? But, like,
52
0,38:24,000 --> 0,39:33,000
that's I think the intentionality is one of the things that you're talking about that I think is really important to to move Dogs. The screen. But dogs can add value. Oh, yeah. No doubt. I I'm not a dog. I like dogs. I don't wanna own a dog. Because I I see my neighborhood of all these 50 year old guys, and they're the ones cleaning up the poop, and it's never you know, I I said I'm not doing it. Sure. But what I did like during the podcast was is the dog was part of the story because all of a sudden, I thought the lady I was interviewing may have passed gas very loudly. And she kinda just stopped, and I'm like. And I stopped. And she's like, that wasn't me. I was like, she's like, it was my dog, and I'm about to die. It smells so bad in here right now. Oh god. I'm like, you better blame that dog because that was really awkward And good for you if you did, but she didn't make any emotions where you'd have to kinda, like, you know, like, turn it out a little bit. Like right? But, like, she was just talking all of a sudden. I was like, why am and you're like What was that? Sure that was that was a big fart. And and she was like like like like, she had eaten, like, a butter sandwich. I know see where I'm going with this. The point is hear you. Yeah. Your dog ever done that? It's a hardwood floor. Does he get vibration effect? No.
53
0,39:33,000 --> 0,39:43,000
My dog sometimes will start humping her bed behind here, and that's that's always you're like, oh, gosh. What am I gonna do here? I have,
54
0,39:43,000 --> 0,40:44,000
this I wish I have to find this video because this lady I was talking to, this was just like a business meeting. She her screen was blurred. And, guys, this is intentionality, so just know this. If what's normal in your world, your relationship with somebody is not always a relationship you have with them. So when your dog comes in, and I can tell it's a bedroom scenario even to and it it looks like something violently is happening behind your head. And, occasionally, you get a kick you get the thing on mute, and your dong is going to town on your your throw pillows. And I'm like, hey. Is everything okay behind you? She's like, oh, he's just he's teething, so he's getting blood on everything. And I'm like, oh my god. And she was, like, trying to pull this dong off this pillow, and this thing has just not given up on it. And it's all It's sad. And I'm like So bad. You didn't you didn't even you just threw the pillow back on and, like, didn't even Yeah. I'm like, I would never sit on your bed ever. Yep. Just you know, I should. So my point is people, the dog can be part of the story, but you don't wanna make it the story. No. You definitely don't. Yeah. I want your dog to go hump the thing now. I I kinda wanna you know what I'm saying?
55
0,40:44,000 --> 0,40:47,000
Here. Don't don't do it. Don't do it.
56
0,40:47,000 --> 0,41:23,000
Turn out the lights. Oh, wait. There you go. Did you come in? No. She she just Alright. So if you're listening, he has a doggy door. That's what we're just It's true. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Let's, let's let's look at your own little your your own, you know, little slice of the world here. Okay? You're trying to keep your agency where it's better, not bigger, And and and you're not opposed to getting bigger, but you just don't wanna do it at the cost of quality or lifestyle. Fast forward a year, is everything the same when you're super happy, or have you say, listen, I have a few less clients, same revenue? Or what what's the what's the fast forward one year look back? I'm super happy that happened.
57
0,41:23,000 --> 0,42:35,000
Yeah. So I I would love just this year to repeat every year right now, and, to have the amount of work that we have coming in. I love serving I mean, I would say we're probably about, like, 60 to 70% of our clients we've been serving for the past 3 years, and they're all the same, and they keep coming back. And, but, our our biggest thing that's kind of been the the nut that we've cracked is is around subscriptions versus retainers. And so that's something that we offer our customers is is subscription services, and that's been really, really great, particularly around, like, fractional marketing type of teams. And so I would love to have that as a, I would love to have an another client or 2 doing that type of work. But, but the truth is is if we looked at, like, what most people would say is, like, okay, are we, you know, are we successful? Like, right now, I'm, like, man, I just I'm just blessed to have the the crew that I that I that I lead with and among. And so those guy I mean, I would say if I can repeat 2024, let's go.
58
0,42:35,000 --> 0,42:51,000
Awesome. Well, so, like, you know, this time of show, I who who do you would, you know, specifically wanna get you know, here's your ICP. Let's just see how narrow you guys use a marketer, see how he does in this test question. What's your ICP? Who do you want to get a hold of your ideal customer profile, and how do you want to do it? Yeah. So,
59
0,42:51,000 --> 0,44:09,000
we we are cross industry, so, we don't really care what industry you're in, but it's mostly about what stage of business that you're at. And so for us, working with companies that are of an annual revenue between $5,000,000 and $20,000,000, they have maybe a marketing employee on staff, but usually it's 0 to 3. But the biggest thing is is they know that there's more demand in the market. They just don't necessarily know how to get that and to activate that. And so for us, that's what our, our ICP really looks like. We love working in education. We love working in, like, service based businesses, and certainly nonprofits. We we we like working with those, and we have a lot of success with them. But that's that's who we we enjoy working with and and hope to work more with. Do you work all over the country, or do you just focus on the Atlanta area? All over. Yeah. Yeah. We we have a, like, we have this really weird connection in Minneapolis and have a bunch of different customers in in Minneapolis that we've that we've worked with. Yeah, it's pretty wild, you know, we had a great we had an education consultancy that we continue to work with that, they, they've been a big, a big referral partner with us
60
0,44:09,000 --> 0,44:20,000
on some of the work that we've been doing. So that's that's been that's been great. I love it. There if there was a question today I should have asked you, but it didn't. What would that question have been?
61
0,44:20,000 --> 0,44:24,000
It would have been, tell me about your kids.
62
0,44:24,000 --> 0,44:41,000
You know, I was thinking in a creepy way. Tell me where your children are right now. Exactly. Tell me what tell me about your kids. So how many kids you have? So this is a family piece. Right? So Yeah. Tell me about your kids. I mean, because that's why I'm in business is that. It's like it's it's for my family. And so,
63
0,44:41,000 --> 0,45:32,000
yeah. My 3 boys, 8, 9, and 10, we did that to ourselves. Our 8 9 year old, we adopted from China, and, my my middle son, so we adopted our youngest son first, and our 10 year old is our bio, and then, but our middle son has Down syndrome, and he's like in a complete joy, and because of that, and a bigger longer story that we don't have time for here, but, one of the things that our business has done since the very beginning is we give away 3% of revenue, top line revenue, to adopting children with Down syndrome internationally. So we have a donor advised fund called the Triumph Foundation that my wife helps do, and and gives grants to families adopting children with Down syndrome.
64
0,45:32,000 --> 0,47:49,000
I love that. Nope. Really no middlemen, like, really money and money out, like, which is That's it. That's yeah. That's really well done. So good. I mean, awesome for you for, adopting. It's a most I mean, I I I think we would have done this if we hadn't have our own 3, and then after you have a couple, you're like, I think we're good. Oh, 3 is we're like people are like, oh, don't you wanna, like, afford the little girl? I'm like, no. 3 is exactly who we need. That's it. We're not doing anything. 3rd child. I feel like we could stop there, and that would just be, like, in the unit there. If we go any more than that, then it's like we're starting to push the boundaries. But, I mean, listen. I think I love that you have listen. Clearly, you have so many you have so many roots that are beyond just money making, and it's probably, like, from, like, you know, the the the seminary work into what you're doing now and how you're, like, you know, look at life, and you're helping kids that wouldn't otherwise maybe not have had a chance at all. And they're loved, and it's great, and you're helping other families find that too. So I love it. We're gonna call them pre verified. We're gonna call them pre verified for the agencies that we work with. It's good. Trey, thank you so much for coming on today. Hey. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for letting me do this. Ma'am, you you as well. So create with roar.com. That's how you get a hold of my team. You missed that part of the exam question, but that's alright. He was he was you know, he's under pressure. Okay, guys? He's under pressure. He's not used to talking in front of a group anymore. Actually, if there's a group, he'd probably be fine, but, you you know, it's 1 on 1. So it's great. Sure. Create with roar.com. I'll say it again. Create with roar.com. Trey, thank you. I'm gonna put you in the periwinkle room. I'll be right back. Alright. Thank you to everyone who, listened, jumped in on chat today. You know, once again, this is our mission is to help entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship, and sometimes it's not all about money, and it shouldn't be. It should be about the impact you have in your community and your family, and what you're doing for others to help them have better lives as well. And I think you can learn quite a bit from the the story today and how how Trey thinks about business and life, and and his family as well. So I thank Trey so much for coming on and sharing. Anybody who's, you know, still out there, take a moment. Go to youtube.com. Hit the subscribe button, for the never been promoted channel. And if you listen to this and you made it to the end of the podcast, you rock. I wish I could give you a 5 star review, but since I can't, you can do it for us. It'd be great. That'd be awesome. Thank you so much. Until we meet again, get out there and go unleash your entrepreneur. Thanks for listening.
65
0,47:49,000 --> 0:47:51,000
Thank you for listening to the Never Been Promoted podcast. If you liked today's show, subscribe at youtube.comforward/at never been promoted. Until next time. Get out there and go unleash your inner entrepreneur.