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Welcome to the Never Been Promoted podcast, where we're all about helping you cut the tie to all that holds you back. The excuses, the fears, the people, that sense of entitlement. Cut the ties so you can unleash your inner entrepreneur. Your host, Thomas Helfrich, is on a mission to make more entrepreneurs in the world and make them better at entrepreneurship.
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Hey.  Never Been Promoted. Hi. I'm your host, Thomas Helfrich. We are gonna be talking about, some cool stuff with entrepreneurship here, but, like, really just a inspirational story of of of overcoming and recognizing parts of your journey. You know, Nick's gonna talk Nick Pavlidis. I hope I'm saying that. I forgot to ask him specifically how to say it, so I'm just making shit up at this point. It's okay because that's what I do, and then people can hold me accountable off camera or on later. It's fun. If you've never been here before or listened or anything like that, thanks for joining for the first time. If you've been here before, you know our mission is to help entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. You gotta cut the tide, all that stuff holding you back, and unleash that entrepreneur within you. You get out there. Now before we get going, I have one call to action. Please take a moment. If you like this channel, go to youtube.com/at never been promoted and subscribe. And if you listen to the podcast, reviews matter tons to get our mission out there, to get the stories, from the our guests. So if you can do the 5 star review, it'd be great. But now enough shameless plugs. Let's get mister Nick up onto the to the stage here, Nick. How are you?
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I'm doing well. How are you? So with the, name pronunciation, it was close, but, so now I'm I'm gonna be on a mission to pronounce your name differently every time I say it for the rest of our time together. This is typically how my little rolex. Because my name does have different pronunciation. It it's it's just Pavlidis. Pavlidis. Pavlidis. Sounds good. I mean, you were there. Pavlidis.
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I do this because I have to say your name multiple times, which gives you marketing credit. Do you see how I did that? Yes. Yes. And people are like, well, how do you say it? And they read it. And they're like, I don't think he's saying it right. It's Pavlidis. Pavlidis. And they say it to themselves. Now they're thinking, that's Nick Pavlidis. Okay. That's a trick. Guys, you can take that that little nugget and take it away. My last name, how do you think it's pronounced? Because I don't know. Actually, I do know, but I mean I would I would say Helfrich, but there could be a, like, a Helfrich at the end, of course. Yeah. That's the 2 predominant American ways to do it. It's Helfrich or Helfrich. Mhmm. If it's, like, maybe Central Europe, you know, Slavic, they'd say Helfrich. Mhmm. And if you're German, it actually sounds good. They're like Helfrich. It's like a it's like a sounds good. I can't do it because I'm I'm not German. My German accent is annoying, so I'm not even gonna try.
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Yeah. If we were to go to Greece, that'd be.
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It's like a you have, like, a lift in a. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Interesting. Yeah. Well, Nick, thanks for coming on, man. I you're super busy. You're you're, you know, you're aloof. You're hard to get on a show, and somehow you agreed to come on this one, so hopefully that's not regrettable by the end of this hour. So thanks for
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Yeah. My pleasure. My pleasure. I I can pretend to to, you know, big time something. The the truth is I just love being in the background, and, we have some mutual friends, and I respect you and and everything that you're,
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that you're focused on and that you're all about. So it was, it was an easy decision to join you. I I appreciate it. And, for those who don't know, you know, there's a thing called Podfest every year, and it's Orlando. Right? It's where you guys do this. Yeah. And it's it's, like, the biggest podcast extravaganza. Podcast orgy? Is that too I don't know if that's the right terminology. Podcasters laying in different for some. I I haven't I haven't been in those corners of the room. But I mean, podcasting can get weird, and I think sometimes that might be how someone described it to me on your team at one point. It's like a podcast orgy, but not with orgy. I'm like, I kinda wanna go now. I'm just not for any other reason that it just interesting way to describe a conference that I've never been to like that. Yeah. Right? I've never rocked a conference of any type that would be described that way. You know what? Take a few moments here if you can. Set up your kinda journey story. Goes far back. I mean, I I did lead with you. You've been dead. So you have to kinda go back to the point where you died. Sure. We can start at death. That works.
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So there there were 2 times in my life. One time, I was very close to death, and and I was able to I I just got lucky that I got really sick before, before a lot of people do, when they were dealing with what I was dealing with. And that was just a couple of years ago, but I was dead at the scene of a car accident my senior year of high school. So September 11, 1995. Yeah. I was, working at an ice cream shop, and I was on my way back from bringing some sundaes to a to a house, and someone was on the wrong side of the road, hit me head on. I had no seat belt. I was in a little car, and they were in a big Buick, and I, I bounced around the car. My chest completely pushed the steering column into the, into the dashboard. And when I, when I woke up, I was still in the car. They said I had been out for about 7 or 8 minutes, and when they found me, I was done. I had no blood pressure, no pulse, lost body functions. I had a seizure at the scene. Thank thanks to some filters you probably can't notice, but, like, I have, maybe maybe one of these is sort of shining through. I bounced off the windshield. I was lucky I got caught. I didn't get ejected, but my tendons were severed all the way down to my bones and, had brain injury. And I, when they found me, they they didn't think it was, they didn't think it was looking good. And then eventually, I came through. They had me on the maximum oxygen, and they were treating me in the car. They couldn't get me. They wanted to airlift me, but it was in a thickly settled area. And so they ended up just throwing me into, a well, maybe not throwing me, placing me gently into the back of an ambulance. He's dead anyway. Toss him in the back seat. And so they drove by, like, so many hospitals to go into Mass General Hospital, which was the only facility that had a trauma care level that that that could provide some hope. And, but when I when I woke up, I was in and out. I woke up to them screaming that they couldn't find a pulse. They had no pulse. They had no blood pressure. And I I could hear them, but I couldn't see them. And I was, I thought my eyes were open, but I they apparently weren't. And, eventually, I was just, like, forced myself to just utter, like, wait. I have no pulse. And those were the the first words I said when I came through. And they, they took care of me. They got me in the back of the car, and eventually, I stabilized. I was in the hospital for a little bit, not too long. I think 1 or 2 nights. I don't I don't really remember. But because of that, I actually have no childhood memories. And so, like, everything before my senior year of high school, I may get, like, a deja vu feeling or, like, remember, like, a snapshot of an event. But my family is all from Greece, and we have gone to Greece 13 times as a kid. I don't remember a single one of those vacations. We were there 5, 6 weeks at a time, and my family talks about all these times we did to get we we spent together all these things we did together. And, it's like I'm hearing it for the first time. And so, it gave me a really cool opportunity just to reassess. At the time, I was in, like, a heavy metal band playing drums and lead singer, and I was, on the varsity soccer team of high school. And then I couldn't do any of that because my hands were torn apart. My back and neck still to this day. I'm in pain all day, every day. I'm just used to it. It's just this this this pain there, but it provides me this really cool perspective. Also, this discomfort. I I really enjoy the discomfort of my back and neck because I can't sit sit idle, sit still for any period of time, so I have to keep moving. But after that, I I really had this ascent assessment because from what I understand, and you'll hear that if I'm ever talking about childhood. From what I understand, because I don't remember, I'd always been, like, you know, family oriented, wanting to start a family and and whatnot. So my my instinct was, oh my goodness. Like, I was just dead. This is kind of a big deal. What if it happens again and I either don't get to have a family or I have a family, and now they're, like like, they got no money for food. And so I I went from not being a good student. I graduated somewhere in the middle of my high school class, d's, c's, etcetera, to actually valedictorian of my undergrad. Like, I just became obsessed with with success at that point. And anything I did, I was obsessed with. I worked full time in undergrad and eventually I went to law school, valedictorian of undergrad, worked full time, just obsessed with saving up enough money. So if something were to happen to me when I had a family, they'd be okay. A few years later, I discovered life insurance and then realized I wasted like 10 years of my life obsessing over saving money when I could just spend, you know, $1500 a year and not have to worry about any of that. Oh, you didn't. You Yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, cool. I got I got cash to spend now. Let's go invest in something. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when I bought my first business. Well well, I I I've always been a little bit of an entrepreneur as a child from what I understand. I used to go and buy, like, bulk candy before school and sell it piece by piece in in school. And even in when I started as a lawyer, I always had a side hustle. So I was an undergrad, went to Boston College for law school, ended up getting a job offer from an incredible law firm straight out of law school in New York City. They were based in in DC. At the time, they had 300 lawyers. Now they have something like 700 lawyers. And, the way some of us called it, described it, was it's the cream of the crap. Like, law firms are not a great place to work. But this was of the law firms, it was a real the people were nice. It's just the industry was really, really, challenging. When I first moved to New York, again, I was still at this point, I still hadn't learned about life insurance. I was obsessed with I like, I'm this my father flips burgers for a living. My mother sells them and at this they have a little mom and pop shop here in in Massachusetts. And everyone else who was hired, one of their fathers was, like, an ambassador. 1 of the fathers was, like, you know, my classmates rather was the ambassador to Canada or something like that. The former governor of Massachusetts lawyers. Like, they had this, like, pedigree. And for me, it's like, well, my dad came over on a boat and now he flips burgers. But he's he's a he's a business owner. And so I didn't feel like I belonged, so I called the real estate broker. I said, get me as close as you can to this office. This is where I'm gonna be working. 52nd in Broadway was the office. So she found me an apartment on the exact city block, so I didn't even have to to cross the street to get to work. I was like that paranoid about getting them figuring out that I didn't belong. And so I figured I'd just outwork everybody. And so I never set boundaries. Nick, can you do this? The answer was always yes. And I I ended up doing really, really well at the law firm. I was there for 10 years. I was the head of the associates committee. I was I was the only non partner or not, the only associate to have a corner office, and which is a status thing there. To me, it didn't didn't really I'm I'm not big on titles. I'm not big on status, but it meant that they liked me. And so I had a corner office suits. You're really What? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Mike's suits. Yeah. Right? And so I'm overlooking Central Park. Everyone who would come by would think that I was somehow relevant, at least, if not important, because of that. And but but the truth is when that happens, then you just get more work. And, I was there for 10 years, amazing people, still in touch with many of them to this day, and I've been gone since 2014 from there. I started there in 2004. I was a summer associate in 2003, and, never lost a case. Not because I was better, smarter, or anything than anyone, but because we either settled or we had a successful result in court, because I took a different approach. And that was me. Like, I was always the oddball. The the the criticism that I used to get was, you know, we don't feel you love the law. And I can still remember them telling me that. I'm like, why would anyone love the law? Like, you love people. You don't love the law. Like, this makes no sense to me. And they didn't mean it negatively toward people, but, like like, I had no idea what one particular judge's inclination or political leanings was. Like, I wouldn't spend my time studying the Supreme Court. And and that was negative for that for that environment. And so, you know, I'd spent all those years really, really successful, but then when I'd leave the office, sometimes really, really late, I was working 80 to 100 hours a week. When I'd leave the office, I never left feeling like I did good in the world. Like, even when I won, in order for me to win, someone else had to lose. And I would spend my life arguing over things that didn't matter. Like, just ego arguments where I said, hey. I'm going on vacation. Can we have an extra 2 weeks to do this with opposing counsel? And then say no for no particular reason. There was like, you're arguing over things that don't matter, spending time. And for me, it was just not, it was not a comfortable environment. And so sometime around 2010, I started exploring, I started exploring what I could do next. In 2009, I had my first kid, and we I had a commute for the first time and which was awesome. So we moved from the same city block to, Hoboken, New Jersey. So I'd have 45 minutes to a bus to 2 trains, and I started listening to podcasts. And it was really and audiobooks. It was amazing. And so I discovered some mentorship in the entrepreneurship world and realized there's this whole other world out there. And so I spent a few years gaining confidence. I joined a mastermind group in 2014, would go to conferences and started networking, started blogging a little bit, and really tried to feel my way around. And, eventually, my wife had enough of New York City. And by eventually, I mean, like, 2 days after we moved out there. But, eventually, it boiled over a little bit. And, in 2013, I I had a choice to make and I either needed to choose my family or choose my career and and make a push for partner. And so I flipped the coin. I'm just kidding. I didn't flip a coin. I yeah. Right. It's like, hey, honey, you win. No. So I, I just gone back from from one of those conferences I used to go to. 1 of a guy who would become really close mentor of mine, he had this conference. His name is Dan Miller, and he wrote a book called 48 days to the work you love among other things. And so I flew down to his house for an event, March or May 30, 2013. And it was a 2 day event, May 30th June 1st. And I walked in, and it was about business coaching. And at the time, I was like, maybe business coaching is something I'm gonna switch into. So I get into the room, and it's in this, like, weird barn in Franklin, Tennessee, and he called it the sanctuary. And I'm and I'm used to, like, cemented sky rises. And I'm like, this is really uncomfortable. Like, am I getting recruited for something? And so yeah. Yeah. And turns out it was, not in a negative way. Like, it just had that feeling. Like, it was definitely not a cult, but it was, like, it became my world. And Do they they seem like a thing of juice, and you're like, no. Hell no. Not drinking that. I brought my own. Only bottled water. So I walked into the room. I sit down. He walks to the front of the room to start presenting, and I got my notes, and I'm like, alright. I'm gonna take, you know, take notes on how to be a coach. And all of a sudden, this lady walks in and sits next to him, and I had never heard of her. I'd listened to his podcast there, and it turns out that was his wife. And for me, I'm thinking, what's his wife doing here? Not negative about her, but, like Right. Like like, this isn't her event. Like, what's going on? To me, it was, like, work and family. And for him, like, the 2 of them just, like, danced together. Like, she would finish they'd finish each other's, I always wanna say sandwiches because of the dad joke. They would they would finish each other's sentences. I love
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that. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You can sing Let It Go right now, and we can just take a tangent. Sorry. Yeah. Right?
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And it was just beautiful. And the way they treated each other, I'm thinking, man, my marriage is not like that. And so, like, I'm sitting in that room, and I'm like, maybe this is why I'm supposed to be here. Like, not to learn how to be a coach, but to learn how to be a better husband. And so, like, my like, that's I I can't remember a single thing I learned about coaching that day, but the way she looked at him, like, still chokes me up because at the time, I needed that. And and I wasn't getting it because, like, it was just there was just this tension. It was like my wife would say, hey. My cousin's coming to town. Can you can you go to dinner 3 weeks from now? And my response would never be yes. It would be, well, I don't know what work's gonna be like, but put me down as a maybe, essentially. And so, like, even though I ended up making now remember, the firm was the cream of the crap. Like, there was very little that I actually had to miss, but in my head, I made it this huge, like, this this this huge obstacle to even planning dinner with my wife 3 weeks later. And so I essentially disappointed her and reminded her how important she was to me compared to my job every single time for the one hundred times where I actually had to miss something that I planned that far in advance. And so I got on the plane to fly back, and, like, the whole time, I'm just, like, sketching out, and all I could think is like, man, I'm like, I'm doing, like, all the big things right. I'm providing. I'm faithful. I'm gentle, but I'm doing all of the little things wrong, and I mean all of the little things wrong. And so, a week later, I still didn't say anything to my wife, but, like, on that flight, I said, I'm gonna I was not up for partner, but this was the year where it's like, hey. Are you up for partner? Like, this is what it looks like to become partner in the law firm. You're like, yeah. No. Yeah. More work. More work and management. That's what it ended up being. So, like, I went into that. It was June 7th of 2013. I have this meeting. And I I thought to myself, listen. If they say you're gonna be partner, like, there's no additional thing to do, then I'll take the title and then just quit 6 months later or or transition. But if it's if it's not, like, super easy, then I'm just gonna I don't care about the title. And so I get in there and they described. They said, hey, man. We love you. You've been here 10 years. Partner this is what partnership looks like. And it was essentially more work, less money because you have to start paying self employment tax and all that stuff. And my wife had no idea I was gonna do with this, and then I just quit on the spot. I said, well, what if I do none of that? And they're like, well, eventually, you'll get fired. And they said it a little little better than that. And I'm like It's an upper out idea. Like, you make partner, you make your Yeah. You're either going for it and make it, or you don't go for it and And we're replacing somebody cheaper. Yeah. And and it was with great heart. Like, again, great people, great firm, but this is the law firm environment. This is how it works. And so, eventually, like, I said, listen. You know me. I'm not gonna be like like, I work hard. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna just not do any work. And so we agreed to transition me out over the next, 8 months where I didn't really have to do any work, but they would pay me through the following February. So, like, this is June 7th, which is pretty generous because I said, listen. I'm just gonna move the family home to Massachusetts. Nothing against you, but I just can't do this anymore. And so I went I I went home and I told my wife, hey. Just quit the job that she's been trying to get me to quit for 9 years, and she didn't believe me. But, but before that happened, I started experimenting because it was in the back of my mind. June 7th, I'm just gonna quit if it's this. And so when I landed on June 1st, I decided, you know what? I'm not gonna say anything because of sec if I say anything, then she's gonna already have a house under contract in, like, 2 weeks. I need to have this meeting. So I just tried not to tell her I'm gonna be a better husband or to tell her I'm thinking of moving home, but just to be a better husband. And so I said, listen. All the little things. This weekend, the rest of this weekend, and and for the rest of this week, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shut and just do the little things. And so the following day, I'm sitting on the couch and the dishwasher finished the dishes, and I decide, you know what? I'm gonna empty the dishwasher while she's in the room. So I get up, I empty the dishwasher, I sit back on the on the couch, and just watch watch TV. And my wife walks out of the room half hour later or so whenever whenever her show was over, I think she was watching TV, to empty the dishwasher, and then she opens it up and it's empty. And the look on her face, it was not, wow. What a nice thing for Nick to do. Empty the dishwasher. The look on her the last thing on her mind was that Nick emptied the dishwasher. The look on her face was, oh my god. Someone broke in our house and stole all of our dishes. Like, legit, the last thing on her mind that was that was that I actually did that. Now it was I can still remember
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What happened in that barn?
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Yeah. And so from from that moment, I said, you know what? This is like, I just need to do this. Because in my mind, it was like, if she would just understand that work was busy, if she like, I'm doing this for them. I'm doing this so she can stay home with the kids. I'm doing this for and eventually, I just said, you know what? I'm just gonna do it. And I just did it and kept my mouth shut. And then June 7th, I quit. I went home, and she's like, what do you do for work? I said, I got one idea. I called my the only client I had in Massachusetts, and I knew how much they spent on lawyers, not just with my firm, but with others. And I called her up, and I the the general counsel, I said, her name is Janet. I said, Janet, I just quit my job. She didn't believe me because I had told nobody, and I was mister law firm, like, bringing in business, like, lunches, dinners, sports games, like, schmoozing, all that stuff. So I just quit my job. And she's like, yeah. Right. I don't know what I like, I I quit. And I was like, I need you to hire me. And she's like, well, I can't hire you. This is like June 7th or whatever. I think it was the same day. June and she's like, I can't hire you. She's like, I don't have a budget to hire you. I said, first of all, I know how much you spend on lawyers. I can save you 10 times that just by doing it myself. 2nd of all, you you set your budget for this year last year, but I know you didn't set your budget for next year yet. And I've already talked to my firm, and I'm gonna get paid through the end of this year anyhow. So you don't have to pay me until next year. And then the only things I ask is I have a few sort of nonnegotiables, but I realize I'm not negotiating from a position of strength. But you don't have to pay me till next year, and I don't care what you pay me. And she's like, yeah. Right. Because she knew I would like, I was on the committees that were, like, advocating to get more money for associates very successfully too. And she she's like, yeah. Right. I know you and money. And I said, yeah. But here's the thing. I trust you're gonna pay me something fair. That's all I did to sort of protect my my salary. I trust you're gonna You're you're doing the risk reversal. Like, if you're worried about that, you Exactly. Yeah. I was like If you pick too low, I'm gonna argue. I didn't say that part, but pick. Right. Who's gonna Yeah. Like, there was a number where I'm like, I can't take care of the family for this. But I said, I trust you're gonna pay me some fairly, but here's the thing. I just don't want email on my phone. I just can't stand to be at home and have that ding tell me I need to work. I don't wanna work weekends. If there's an emergency, you know my work ethic. Just call my cell phone, and I'll come in if it's an emergency, if it can't wait till Monday. And number 3, I don't well, there's 4. Number 3, I don't want to, work night. I just wanna set schedule. I wanna be able to schedule dinner with my family. Again, you'll have my cell phone number. If there's an emergency, call me. It'll be fine. But I just wanna be home when I'm home and at work when I'm work, I'll work my tail off. If you tell me 7 to 7 Monday through Friday, I'll be there 7 to 7 Monday through Friday. And I'm trying to build something on the side. I don't know what yet, but I've gotta figure that out. And so I don't care if I have to tell clients I can meet with you at 10 PM as long as I can reliably show up for those meetings because I whatever I wanna do, I don't wanna be canceling because of work. I just wanna be able to do it. If there's emergency, then understand. And then finally, I don't wanna put this company on my LinkedIn, and it's still to this day not on my LinkedIn. And why? Because I don't want my online activities to be confused with this comp or associated with this company and my work with this company. And so that's all I care about, and you don't have to pay me for next year. I don't care what you pay me. Whatever you're gonna do, you're gonna send me up, you're gonna hand me an offer letter and I'm gonna sign it without negotiating. And, and she's like give me give me some time. She came back to me and she said okay, I got an offer you're not gonna like. She put put it to me. It was shockingly low. I took a $125,000 a year pay cut and just signed it on the spot. And they ended up when they when she saw the look on my face, she ended up throwing in a company car, which is great. Because when I left the company two and a half years later, they they, they gifted it to me and said, hey. You've been here for two and a half years. You told us what you're gonna do. You did what you said you were gonna do. Nobody believed you that you weren't gonna complain about money and that you were just gonna come in, do your work, be a positive influence in the office, and then go home. But you said and did everything. We paid off the corporate lease, and we wanna help you with your business by giving you 3 months severance. So I quit that job too, and they gave me 3 months severance, 3 months full benefits, and an Audi q 5 on the way out the door. What what was the, side hustle you started? So I didn't know what it was. I went through a whole bunch of things. I went through freelance writing. I went through business coaching, and just none of it fit well. I went to blogging, and eventually, what I I joined that mastermind group, and I met this lawyer turned ghostwriter. And I was like, I've never heard of ghostwriting. I've heard of freelance writing where I'm trying to, like, pitch articles to places and stuff. But ghost writing tell me about that. And she explained it to me and she explained how it worked. And I I asked, well, how much money can you make per book? She's like, well, I'm just kinda just getting started, and she threw out the number that she charged $20,000 per book. And I was like, how many books can you write at a time? She's like, well, I write 5 at a time, give or take. And I was like, okay. And how how long does it take you to write a book? She said about 6 months. And I'm like, okay. So let me do some math. 200,000. Yeah. Yeah. That that can feed a family. You know, I'm I live a simple life. So I'm, I like that. How do you become a ghostwriter? And she's like, I don't know really. I just signed up for this list service and, they send every time an author wants to have a book written, they send an email and we all pitch for it. And I was like, that I don't like because I don't want to rely on a listserv still being in existence to get me my business. I'm not going to go on freelance websites. I don't. So that's the part I didn't like. So I said to myself, if I can just crack the code on how to be able to control and not rely on someone else for deal flow, then this could be it because it's all the skills that I used as a lawyer. I write fast. I'm an empath. I I I'm goal oriented. Everything with my clients in the law firm was begin with the end in mind. We had this big litigation where someone someone was, was sued for $8,000,000, and he's like, listen. If I can just 90 day all the lawyers were talking about their strategies, and I was like, what do you wanna achieve here? He's like, if I could just get 90 days to pay, I'm good. And so, like, alright. Let me just can I take the 1st court date? They said, sure. I go down to the 1st court date. Like, literally, I just go down to the court and said and the judge is like, hey. This seems like an open and shut case. And the judge is like, yeah. The opposing counsel is like, yeah. You know, according to this statute and that blah blah blah. And I'm just like, oh, god. Your honor, it's not that simple. Because it turned out it wasn't that simple. I said we're gonna we're gonna be filing this motion and, it's just money damages. So there if if we have a a slight delay and they win, they just get their money later. And but if we lose, then my client's out $8,000,000 that he shouldn't have to pay. And so if we could just get there's a lot of information we have to gather and some research because it's a a bit of a novel concept. If we could just get 90 days to file our motion, then, you know, there's there's no harm, no foul. But this but at least we have a chance of justice for our client. And the judge is like, that sounds reasonable. So I went home literally the first conversation with those 90 days. My client loved me, took me out for steaks. It was amazing. But and we ended up winning, because he legitimately shouldn't have have paid. He long story. He filed for bankruptcy protecting another country that doesn't automatically apply, but the debt was extinguished in the other country. And so we were able to update New York law to say there's this common law principle that can now apply, which is kinda cool. So so I was, I was just experimenting with everything, and this ghost writing thing was, like, pretty cool. So I I just started I wanted to simplify the process. So this was sometime, I wanna say, in June of 2015, and I'm like, alright. Ghostwriting. This feels right. And so I just started telling people, hey. I'm looking to get into ghostwriting. I'm looking to get into ghostwriting, and people would connect me with folks in the book industry. And, I because I started planning on this, I turned my story of being a terrible husband, into the first book, a little baby memoir. It's somewhere up here. I think it's that one. It's called Confessions of a Terrible Husband, Lessons Learned from a Lumpy Couch, and it talks about me being dead at the scene of an accident, chasing all the money. The it talks about my wife's the look on her face when she thought all of our dishes got stolen, and, and then all the little things I was doing as sort of a self reflection thing. I used that as a little baby, portfolio and but and it took me a while. But in December of 2015, I got my first ghostwriting client. And by August 1st, I walked into the office when to start that conversation that would eventually lead to them with that severance package. Less than 8 months after I got my first ghostwriting client, I quit my job for good. And I've been ghost writing full time and then buying, starting, or influencing other businesses to help thought leaders, experts, coaches, and other, real heart oriented driven high achievers build a similar pathway to work in their passion in a profitable manner.
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Awesome. And, you get some other stuff going. So, like, there's so many lessons and I don't wanna interrupt you because it's just a great story of just and what the biggest thing I I think I know it's the biggest thing. But one thing I would love to pull out of that, and I think most entrepreneurs, I think you gotta get your head around is you need to control the deal flow. And that could be pay per click. That could be a strategy to do for blog writing, whatever else. But you have to find a way to get your own leads without being fully dependent on a service, on you know, like, you know, we work with people with LinkedIn all the time, and I tell them, like, this is part of your strategy. This cannot be your only strategy. Like, we we can do the brand awareness piece. We can do this. We can get more conversations, but you need to have other avenues and referrals. But because you do need both of that. You need a list, so to speak. You need other avenues, but you gotta know all of it. And I think that's an important part, and it's, you know, it's the part that people spray and prey on a lot, and they waste a ton of money, and they go broke trying. So I think for you, you I need to control my own flow of deals, to do that. And when you're when you're doing ghost rides, it's not like you can just go get lunches and do events. You gotta find that rider than the time that has 20 k ready to to pay in. For those out there who just puckered their buttholes a little bit when they're 20 k to write a book, you you know, that's a very fair price for a ghost writer. You go to Really? Yeah. I think it's dot com, and they charge you, like, 35 for the full thing. And, you know, if you go less than that, you're gonna not gonna get typically you're gonna get a mixed
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quality. Yeah. And for context, my current rate is 75, and I've written over a 100 books. I've had I don't say this to brag, but this is my goal is, I've spent a total of $22.15 advertising for my, at any type of real marketing for my ghost writing business, and that was as a joke to send donuts to a radio station to see if they'd mentioned my name on air, and they did twice. And I, I have more clients who have hired me for multiple projects than just one project, and that's because I I have a one sentence business plan. And that's if I help enough people become successful, I never have to worry about my own success. I use what I call how do you do it marketing. And so when you're really successful and you're so excited about your book, people say, man, how'd you do it? And you say, talk to Nick.
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Yep. And listen, as somebody who's gone through a a ghostwriter, if you think about writing your own book, I'll throw a little turd on the table for everyone on this one. I know personally. I'm a creative. I can write pretty well in some things, and I'm a good storyteller typically audio wise.
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Yeah.
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When you put pen to paper to go put that into a 35,000 word book, I will tell you unless not only will you need full headspace into it, if you don't have the talent, you won't get it done. And you'll do what most writers do, which is 95% of his procrastination, because you just don't know what you're doing. You're you're a fear of success I'm sorry, sucking. And you don't think you'll be successful, and you'll be judged. And you're right. People, if you publish it, will go, that was terrible. And even if you do it well, which mine's about to come out, even I'm like, people are gonna think this is so bad and dumb, but the truth is it's just a story and it's a shot at it, and you throw it out there. But you definitely don't wanna half ass it and suck at it intentionally or or AI it.
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Well, so AI from a writing perspective is a challenge, of course, and and there's some dangers, especially because the copyright office has been consistently saying you don't own your book, if you create it through AI because AI is the creator, not you. You're just instructing the creator. But, they're the the number one mistake that any author makes, And so I I since be built a relationship with a with a really good publisher, Morgan James Publishing, that's published some pretty successful books, Brenda Bouchard's millionaire messenger. We did the first editions of Russell Brunson's expert secrets and dotcom secrets, Jeff Walker's launch, some Ray Edwards copywriting books, guerilla marketing books, like a whole bunch of really successful books, bookstore distribution, all that stuff. And eventually, I ended up investing in the company, and now I, I'm the the CEO there. We still have a great team that's operating in a really core key team members to help it work well on a day to day basis. But, the number one mistake authors make is not that they don't write a good book. It's that they write the wrong book. And if you write the wrong book, the worst thing that can happen is for it to be a runaway success because you're gonna have the wrong people calling you. They're gonna call you for the wrong reasons. You're gonna hate your book. You're gonna hate your life. You're gonna hate your publisher. You're gonna hate your ghostwriter. You're gonna hate yourself. And, and I wouldn't want that for anybody. And so if any value, even beyond the words and the art and science of writing to, to get people to change and to inspire people, that's that's what I tell my clients. I I and that's really all I charge for. I charge for the strategy and the process that I use. The words, I just throw in for free. If someone's like, oh, how how much is it for a 40,000 word book? Same thing. How about 75? Same thing. We write the words we need to write to be able to achieve the goal, And so I don't charge for the words. But then the the second most, most expensive and biggest mistake authors make, even if they write the right book, is they hide in a corner for 6 months or 6 years or hire a ghost writer who hides in the corner for 6 months or 6 years with them. And they released the book to the world, and once they run out of cousins, they run out of sales. And so the best approach to take in that regard is to write your book using a process where you don't even care if you ever sell a book. You'll give it away as fast as you can because you know for every 100 books that's out there, someone's gonna hire you for 10 bucks. And so what I do with people and recommend anyone watching here does is I have them start talking about their book and networking using their book from the second they commit to writing it. So, hey. I'm writing this book. I have one client, Angela adviser. We he he ended up having to pause the project during COVID because he just needed to, like, focus on things, and we haven't even started it up yet. We only wrote the first draft of his book. And he before we were done with the first draft, was was earning $620,000 per year more because of his book. And
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Yeah. You you're spot on. Right? So never been promoted was because last summer, I did my first initial draft, And I was like, oh, we should be close. And here we are over a year later, like, still working through it because I'm like, I just I had to do a rewrite. It wasn't what I wanted. And the the truth is that's what's that's what spawned this podcast, this YouTube channel. And it was gonna be called never been promoted and even just this month here in, in September. Right? I've decided literally this week. I was like, I'm actually gonna because my ghostwriter's like I was like, hey. You know, I think the the whole through line is cutting the tide, all the stuff that's holding you back. And it's not like, I said, I think we should call it cut the tie. And his only response is, like, that'd be more about them. Never been promoted. It's about you. And I was like, that's a really good point. So and so I was like, though this story has lots of my stories in it, cutting the tie is what I want you to do. So so from it in it ties into what the community is that I wanted to build, right, which is cut the tie. And those two things now can work together. Like, hey. The book is about cutting the tie, and the the the community is gonna help you do that and whatever it means to you to get the things that are holding you back. And that allows me to keep Never Been Promoted now as a brand separate around podcast, YouTube channel. It just has a funny name. But you're right. If if you don't have, the ideas of where you wanted to go, that would have produced the wrong group. Wrong. For me. It would have been people, like, looking to get jobs as opposed to people looking to get help moving forward in their entrepreneurship, and you're spot on with that. And that was actually the realization literally this week I made. I was like, oh my god. I need to I've got podcasts out there saying, hey. I'm the author. I've never been promoted.
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I'm like, well, that's gonna that's gonna change. Well, I just think it's a clunky way to reference host.
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Do I? The the the the logo we have some shared logoing is what's gonna happen because it's it's a personal brand new, but I'll figure that out later. Talk about, like, like, some stuff you're doing with, like, you know, podcasting, podcast stuff as well just because, you know, just conscious of time. Just wanna make sure that people kinda realize how important podcasts are and and your involvement with this podcast and stuff. Because, I mean, I'm saying that because I I find that what you guys are doing down there to be really cool and and, important because I don't think people realize the power of podcasting
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still. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so yeah. So in in 2022, I invested formally in in Morgan James Publishing and and realized, basically, just from listening to the thought leaders and the experts and the passion, the people with messages that I was helping write books. I'd listen to the questions that asked. Now what do I do with this thing? Or how do I promote this thing? Or how do I get on the on stages or shows? How do I make money with digital marketing funnels? So I my focus was to alright. How do I start with connections, then start with influence, then eventually either then eventually get to control all the things these people who are stuck in jobs that they some of them hate. Some of them just it's not their it's not their passion, not their calling. How do I help them not need day jobs? And so I worked my way from referring to the publisher to influencing the publisher to, you know, being a part of the leadership team of the publisher. And then the other pieces started getting together. And I had been friends with Chris Kremitzos for several years at Podfest, which is sort of a a grassroots bootstrapped conference, the oldest and consistently running in person podcasting originally conference, in the world. And we expect about 3,000 or so people to register this year, and attend. And some really, really cool sponsors who have already signed up, to support the show, which is incredible. And so he and I have been friends. And last September or September of 2023, he called me up and said, hey. I think I've taken Podfest as far as I can take it. I'm a people person. I'm not a numbers person. I'm not a spreadsheet guy. I saw what you did with Morgan James because I did some really cool things with the team at Morgan James. And so definitely don't take the credit. Same thing with all of like, I've written 8 Wall Street Journal or 7 or 8 Wall Street Journal bestsellers, USA Today bestsellers, international bestsellers. I've had the number one book on Amazon multiple times, like, literally the number one, not a sub sub subcategory. Number 1 book on Barnes and Noble, multiple times. And, like, people like, man, you must have a great system, and the truth is I do. But I also work with people who are successful to begin with, and, like, I just help them focus their success efforts with what I know about how books and people work. And so I can't take all the credit and the same thing with the companies. Like, we have an amazing team at Morgan James. And so Chris is like, I think I've taken Podfest as far as I can take it. I need some help. I saw what's been going on at Morgan James. Can you do the same with Podfest? And I said, I'm interested, but I'm not interested in doing it if you're not gonna be involved. And he's like, he's like he's like, I would love to work with you. I said, alright. Let's walk before we run. Let me help out this year, and don't pay me a don't pay a don't pay me a penny. I've I've heard this bit before. Don't pay me for 6 months. Exactly.
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Not a guarantee a job.
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Yeah. Just have someone else paying you. Like, fortunately, I've you know, my I I have a really, a really strong reputation in the ghostwriting world, which is cool. Like like, I love people not knowing who I am, so I I resent you for putting me on your awesome show. You know what? Don't resent away because I think I'm not a
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trade up all day long. You're my paperclip. Now you'll be on the paperclip. You're, like, a full full Yeah. Alright. You wanna get to that Lamborghini.
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There you go. There you go. I'll work my way up. So I, I said, let's just work together. Let me see. Because I think the authors at Morgan James and some of the people in my community because I also launched a course on how to help writers put my ghostwriting agency out of business called Ghostwriter School. And I've helped a lot of people, like, get into ghostwriting, sort of fast track into ghostwriting so they didn't have to learn the really expensive lessons I learned trying to figure this thing out from a marketing and business perspective, especially. And so I said, I think my community would really love to connect with authors with podcasts because they're always talking about how do we get on podcasts, how do I network with podcasters, how do I start a podcast, all these things. So I said, let me try. And so I did an author room. I said, let me just take an author room for a day and see if I can attract enough people into that room to see if there's a really good fit, and then I'll help out with some other things. And it ended up being the most successful Podfest in, at least since COVID, if not ever. And the author room was packed. People were bringing in chairs, moving around tables because we, like, put in tables there just because I wasn't sure. I was like, alright. Let's fill up the room with tables because we fill it up with chairs. People might not show up and it'll be awkward. But if it's there are tables in there, then there's fewer chairs and it'll look packed. And it turns out that was a mistake, that people or maybe it wasn't because people came up to me at the end and said this needs to be 3 days and you need a bigger room. And so I I said this this might be it. And so Chris and I worked out a deal where I'm the managing partner. I'm the CEO. He is, he's still a shareholder and in charge of he's not going anywhere in char he's in literally Bogota, Colombia right now doing Podfest, Colombia. There, we expanded into Asia in in, in May September. Right now, as we speak is our first of what we intend to be annual events that we're gonna grow in Colombia, and we're working with a promoter in Africa now to to do something there, really take it worldwide. And what we do is we have a community of podcasters, and we focus on independent podcasters. We love the industry, and we love, all of the great services there. Our sponsors allow us to do what we do, but we know the heartbeat of what we do is that community, that feel, and we help enough creators become successful. Everyone wins because there'll be 3, 4, 5000 creators there to all learn about the great products and services that can help them grow. And so what we really focused in on that community there.
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I love that. And, you know, and I'm looking forward to this year because I'm gonna hopefully be a little more active of a participant. I'm not one who typically goes to a a conference as a consumer. I I usually go there to try to add value or don't go. It's always been my philosophy of it because it's, just it's time. Right? I and and this is you can't touch enough people. So, we'll take that one offline because I think the they're never been promoted is an interesting business model that is, I think a lot of podcasters could benefit if they have the ability to do one thing, which is add value first. And if you can add value first, you can monetize a podcast, you can grow a great YouTube channel, and you can all do it in a year. And that's what we did. So and and by the way, back up about 9 months speaking to some of the people at Podfest and some other pieces, that's how this relationship got started between you and I, is they they I was telling them what I was doing, and they said, well, you should come down and and present at Podfest. I had, like, a week. I was like, you know what? I wanna wait a year because it's already working, but the presentation I could give next year will be ridiculous. And they're like, we love that. I'm like, perfect. So,
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I I agree with you too. It's a really cool event. Anything that adds value to the attendees. We want attendees to be able to leave and say, I these 5 connections I make are gonna change my life. Maybe not tomorrow, but here. And this information
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that that I is gonna help. It it's so so I'll leave you guys with this note and, just just so just because conscious of time, you're just low on the on the show. But, like, the the the sales team from Podfest specifically was like, hey. What do you wanna sell? And I said, nothing. I said, I actually wanna go present how you can go make money on your podcast. I go, I don't have anything to sell. I go, never promoted is just is out there to help people get better at entrepreneurship, period. And if I can help the podcasters do that, I just wanna present that to them. And the only QR code I'll put up is just, you know, listen to the podcast or something. I'm like, like, I don't know. Like, look. Anyway and so, enough of that. So I I wanna make sure that people know how to get ahold of you. Give me, like, the 32nd shameless plug. How do you want people to get ahold of you, and who should do that?
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Yeah. If you just wanna I'm I'm an email guy. Nick at authorityghostwriting.com. Shoot me an email. Like, I don't have a a a lead magnet to get you on a list or anything like that. We'd love to see you at Podfest if you go to podfestexpo.com. But Nick at authorityghostwriting.com, that'll get to me, and I'd love to connect and see how we can help people succeed.
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I was, not fast enough to type that on the screen, the Nick app. But have a good Nick. It's like, I don't. I am like, I should have a shirt. My my team says, I should have a shirt that says my tie ups are legendary. Love that. Okay. I should because we have people who who who who have fat thumbs will know what I'm talking about right there. Nick, you rock. Thank you so much for just I know I know you're super busy and and, like, you and and the fact that you've come on the show, and I I just I cannot tell you how much I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your story. It is I didn't realize all the little things that you wow. Thank you. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. Happy to be here. The periwinkle room here. There's no snacks because it's digital, and I probably would have eaten them if they were, but I'll be right back with you. Thank you, Nick, so much for joining today and anybody who, made it to this point in the show, listening or watching, you rock. Get out there. Go unleash your entrepreneur. Cut the tide or whatever the hell's holding you back so you can literally just, you know, just be your best self. Beyond entrepreneurship, cut the ties, all that shit that you don't need to worry about or shouldn't have to deal with and the fears, the excuses. I always talk about the people in your life. The truth is it's you. Cut the things of the beliefs that you know that might not be true, the things that you hold on to that are just just excuses. Get rid of it. It's not worth it. Thank you for listening. Get out there. Unleash your entrepreneur.
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Thank you for listening to the Never Been Promoted podcast. If you liked today's show, subscribe at youtube.com forward slash at never been promoted. Until next time. Get out there and go unleash your inner entrepreneur.