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Welcome to another episode of Never Been Promoted. Hello. I'm Thomas Helfrich. You may not know that, but I'm your host. I'm the guy for cut the blue tie. The tie is a metaphor and the logo, but cut the tie means, you know, cut these ties to these things in entrepreneurship that hold you back. And that could be people, that could be things, that can be, excuses you make, the fears you hold on to. And I’ve never been promoted. My whole mission is to help a 1000000 entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. And, I feel like in that word, by the way, I feel like I almost cussed twice. I almost say entre manor and entrepreneur shit. And I didn't mean to, but I almost did and I could feel it. We have a we have a great guest today, by the way. We're gonna meet him in there, Carter Fox. He's the founder of Carter Fox Consulting, and it's a marketing, focused consulting. He'll get into that. I may be butchering this, but the other party is a musician too, which is really multifaceted. But before we get in, I wanna thank anyone who, this is your first time here. I hope it's the first of many. And if you've been here before, I I do, do respect and very much so appreciate you coming back. Our only call to actions I ever do is if you really like the podcast, and, you know, and you're enjoying the the content, you know, Apple, Spotify, 5 star reviews really matter a lot for the community and the guests, and give you the YouTube channel at youtube.com/neverbeenpromoted. A follow slash subscribe. So let's meet mister Carter Fox. Mr. Carter coming in hot live from Philadelphia,
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I believe. Right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's great to be here, Thomas.
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I'm glad you're here. Is anybody in Philadelphia blonde? Everyone's dark hair there. I know. Oh, if yeah. If you have blonde hair, you probably,
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came here. I feel like everyone I know is, like, blonde or dark hair. You know? I do. I guess I have one friend. You know? Just a different kind of person. I don't know. Do you call your blonde friend like a token friend? Like, oh, that's our token blonde friend. Like, everyone's gotta have one. Everyone's gonna have one. Actually, my blonde friend, he's from Pittsburgh, and he and he came here for college. So Figured. Yeah. You're right. I I feel like that's a pretty strong theory up in here. Yeah. I mean, it is Pittsburgh. I mean, we like Pittsburgh and all. Steelers, I guess they're a thing. There's a thing that have those sandwiches with the fries on them that are really good. I love I mean, that's why everyone there has got a 6 pack. Right? That's everyone's ripped. Also all the, you know, all the diet beer that they have.
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They like diet beer. The honeybees.
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Light beer. Light beer. Yeah. I was on the golf course this week, and my friend was all about it. I'm sitting there drinking IPAs. He's judging me. I'm like
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You know what? I listen. I I quit drinking in August last year, and, 3 years prior to that or so, I stopped drinking beer. It's not like listen. It's not a problem. It's just you get so much back fat from beer because I absolutely love the taste of beer. The IPAs that are nonalcoholic, I will occasionally buy because I just enjoy the taste of them, but a really good IPA I mean, on a golf course, you're like, like, what's the point of golfing? My whole five, you're like, I can't do this. I can't do that. He was that's what he was saying. You see, I'm an inexperienced
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golfer getting out there, you know, having fun, just enjoying it. And he's like, oh, okay. You're having that kind of day. And I'm like, well, I didn't know. I didn't know you should have, you know, the light beer.
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I've definitely had a 12 beer IPA round and been driven home.
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That's that's that's a great round. Sounds like a great round of golf to me, but, no. Even to what you said, he switched to light. He's drinking less beer in any way for himself. He looked great. You look great. You're like, I don't like you now. I hate I don't like you as much.
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Let's get into this a bit here. So let's start with a little icebreaker question. And and I and I don't normally do this, but but this is very important. If you're in Philadelphia, where's the one place you must get a Philly cheesesteak, and where's where's actually the place you should avoid?
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That is the best question that you could've asked me, honestly. So I'm gonna say the recommendations, and I I may be a little biased because I actually happen to live really close. There there's a spot called Delisandre's. It's over in the Roxborough East Falls neighborhoods. It's not directly in the all the tall buildings, but it's the best cheesesteak around. And if the line too long there, there's a spot right across the street called Chubby's. That's wonderful as well. And the spots to avoid are I hate to say it. Don't go to Pat's and Gino's. Just just stay away from that area. If you're trying to be in the city, there's a lot of great stuff spots. There's IshkaBibbles on South Street, Jim Steaks, Angelo's. People will that's actually another great one. But, yeah, don't go to you know, as a person who's grew up right around here, I've been in the city for the last 15 plus years. You don't need to go to Patents, you guys, at this point. It's No. Is is that the tourist trap one where everyone goes to? It's not really a big one. Bright yeah. And they're always open, and they look you know, every you see them in the movies, everyone talks about them. You know? They're like, it's the famous spots, but now you don't need to go there. And I don't recommend I don't recommend going there. There's somebody coming When we went when we went there,
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They have pictures on the wall, and I noticed there was a spot open. So I brought my own picture to try to put my picture on this wall that was open because they have all these famous people. And so I was, like, gonna tape my picture up there, and the locals I was with were like, yeah. Don't do that. Yeah. I think I bought a picture. They make it piss. They may come out after you. If I had done it fast enough, well, they get stickies and framed it. I'm not sure anyone would ever have noticed. Oh, that's the trick. If you're able to just do it and leave it, one day one day someone would be like, who is that guy? That's Thomas. It'd be hilarious. I'd be like, it's Thomas. It's Thomas. Especially if I have a tie there, the signature cut tie. Like, man, who's the guy to cut tie?
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Maybe one day one day. It would be a great combo starter for them. They may actually want you. They should hit you up now.
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Right. They should. Well, maybe. I don't know. I think there's some pretty pretty big hitters on that wall.
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Like Martin Scorsese was on that wall. Like, I mean, some you know, there's some people who people know. Yeah. It's all the again, it's it back in the day, it's it was the great spot to come. Now it's just Right. Now I I there's so many better places, and and I Too many people from Jersey there now. There's a lot of stuff in Jersey. People even go over to Jersey, they say. Like but I'm like, 9 9 9. Don't do that. Just stay. Alright. I'm just down the street. Go to D'ALlesandro's.
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Come on. Go to Listen. Alright. Enough of Philly's cheesesteak. Let's get to this, people. Alright. So talk about you a little bit. You're a musician. You got marketing consulting. You you wanna give us a few minutes on your story? A little bit. Sure. Yeah. My story really is, like, I'm a musician. I've traveled all over the world. I've played with some legends, and I'm also a marketer who's worked with some really cool big companies. Like,
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my story kinda combines both of those together. Like, my story as a marketer is my story as a musician. I started out when I was 15 years old, started to play gigs just outside Philadelphia, and I took on managing all the local jazz groups, started a management company, a booking agency, started booking 4 venues around my area, 2 on their behalf, had a record label, so I've started to put out people's music while I was in high school. One of the bands even went on to get signed to RCA, do some really awesome things. They're even entrepreneurial in their own ways too, because creatives are entrepreneurs. Like, that's the one thing I really like that many people have accepted nowadays, especially as independent artists as as, you know, maybe not Taylor Swift, but she's also a great example of an entrepreneurship. Fantastic business. Yeah. Exactly. She's a renowned person by amazing business people too. Yeah. Oh, I mean yeah. And that and that's another part of being a I I feel like a great entrepreneur is knowing your team and having that being able to pool a great team around you. But even as a small independent artist just getting started, you know, maybe you're just building in your local community, you know, you you have a couple 1,000 streams, maybe just a 100 streams. It's important to understand what you're doing so you don't eventually blow up and everything gets lost. We all hear the stories of the artists of the eighties and the nineties, the seventies, these old major label artists who make no money, who lost that you know, the contracts are really bad and they're really skeevy. And even now, you know, artists are like, don't sign with major labels, blah blah blah. But there's always opportunity. If you're able to create leverage for yourself as an independent artist, as many do, Chance the Rapper, Macklemore, you know, not I I I hope to get on that even kind of level someday, but I've been able to carve out a niche for myself in my community, as a bass player and as, like, a music producer, and now developing skills in marketing and taking all all everything I've learned for myself over the last 15 years as a musician, for a person who's worked with companies, such as Disc Makers, who's worked for restaurants, law firms, dental office, helping them develop their own brand identities, social media presence, and digital ad campaigns, and just grow new customer bases, at the same time of being like, okay. This is how I'm feeding myself and paying for my music promotion and studio time, and now I'm actually helping other artists do the same thing. And now I'm working with even bigger artists, and smaller artists, but who are starting to blow up and do their own things such as, well, it's Freddie Jackson. There's a couple other people I've gotten, the the opportunity to work with, who are starting to blow up in their own right. Aka Dow, Ory Rose. It's really valet u l b who just had the number one song on Apple in Spain. We just did a whole brand identity logo redesign, everything for them, which has been really cool. That's another, like, start from almost 0 and watch it really blow up, opportunity. And now just as a musician, I'm like, I wanna share this. People are always asking me anyway, you know, when you're at you're just at independent forums, when you're talking with other music people, business people. I'm like, let me write something, and I started my consulting company when I wrote a at the same time as writing my book. You're you're going to book up. What's what's the name of your, your book there? My book is called Music Business Basics, How to Effectively Release and Promote Your Music as an Independent Artist. So it's a it's about a 60 page guide book, really breaking down my own personal philosophy, which is maybe not so personal, but it's a very good strategy and methodology for preparing music, for, finishing music, and for promoting your music once you release it, and coming up with just an easy way to make sure you're on top of everything, some strategies on how to run actual ad campaigns for yourself, some suggestions on companies who to work with, basically, and how to find a team. Basically, setting yourself up as a little creative entrepreneur because that's how you're actually going to create a sustainable life for yourself in the creative world or any business.
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Let me ask you this. So so it you know, how does a musician make money nowadays? I mean, everyone's streaming. Is it is it through the stream or is it and I've always was, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna pitch this song to a video game. Like, I how I would even know how to do that. I feel like I'm a creative person. Would have I have no idea how to do that. Well So can you talk about, like, where you can make money and maybe in in your book, you wrote a little while ago, but, like, how has it evolved given streaming and the fact that AI can write songs? And, like like, talk to me about how this
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how the evolution of it does does tell me get into that a bit because I think It's it's so interesting. Super interesting, and most people, like, are clueless. They just think every musician's broke, which they're right. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it's it's being a musician, people when when they ask me, like, oh, what else would you do if you weren't a musician? I'd be like, I'd be an actor or something. I'd be like, another job where you make no money or an actor where you Great choices. I'd make great choices. But, like, just in a very similar, you know, the the top 1%, the top 0.5% are the ones making these mansion esque 1,000,000 of dollars off of things. It's it's not even that. It's like it's it's it's probably the least
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it's the least effect. Even people who are super famous often are broke because they they have to have such a lifestyle. And by the time they've made it, they've you know, they're like, I still live in a 1 bedroom and, you know, these guys are making money usually until they have the stuff that people want their time or their name or their brand with it. Exactly. Like Ryan Reynolds, pretty pretty amazing actor, made lots has made plenty of money. He's he's in the upper of the upper 1%, you know, a list. Right? His biggest money has come from things like his it it's from the Min Move. Telecom company and some other stuff and stuff he's done with marketing. It's it's incredible. So, anyway anyway, enough of that. It's another great example, though. And that that just, like, as a creative person, like, creating music and producing music is entrepreneurship and building a business and building something
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out of nothing and watching that grow is just like creating an album. And that could be, like, a 3 d printing manufacturing company that's which was a random thing I helped do a couple years ago, to out of no you know, out of left field. Because I got friends who are way smarter than I am, and they're engineers and scientists. So I, like, hang out with them and, like, oh, what are you guys up to? Like, what opportunities do we have here? What's in your lab? Yeah. What's so so go back. So from the music standpoint, right,
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what's changed and and what are the core fundamentals that someone who has a musical inclination? How can they make money? Now they may need a full time job. So take take me through that path a little bit with with them. So, you know,
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one, having the day job, if you will, you know, nothing wrong in the in the especially as an and many major artists also have day jobs, if you wanna call it. They'll they'll have a record label or a promotion company that either they've founded, they work for, they run. A lot of them are teachers as well, professors at universities, music teachers. But that's just you know, in that opportunity, having a day, you could work as a marketing a marketer and kind of connect things together. Streaming. Let's talk about streaming for a minute. You make little, little, little change, little sense, right, like, per stream. Drake, for example, or any of those kind of major artists will make, you know it's it takes, like, a 1000000 streams is equivalent to about $5,000. You wanna think of that. So if you're having a 1000000 streams a day, there you go. 5 that's $5,000 a day was at a 150 k a a month, Something like that. And I mean, like, listen. If you get a 1,000,000 streams But that's you can definitely make money on it now. There's a multiplier too. If you're, like, the 1,000,000,000 level, it's even higher and Yeah. There's a And and and, hopefully, if you're making those level streams at that on one platform, you're making that more. And most likely, if you're having 1,000,000,000 of streams or millions of streams per month or something, you have the attention to then be playing really nice shows so that we get into the actual possibility of making money now. Independent artists don't make as much as one thinks when you go touring. It's still a huge investment, even for the major artists. Like, you hear Taylor Swift's era's tour making 1,000,000,000 of dollars or Beyonce's. There's spent, like, 800,000,000 though too. And it does because you're I mean, you're it's a whole economy. What your fee how many people work for you plus all the equipment and the insurance and the and depending on who is really running behind it. So if you're independent, you're you're paying all you know, Taylor Swift could be fronting all that money. Kanye could be putting all the money up. Live Nation or AEG, typically, the big, tour companies that you work with, and they're the ones kind of doing everything. There's even artists coming out now such as John Bellion being like, even those kinds of level tours, you still make not enough money as an artist, which is insane because that's where you're supposed to be making your money. That's what they tell you.
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And what I've I've actually heard, by the way, too, that more and more venues, big ones, are taking a chunk, 20, 30% of their merch tents So they're which is funny because they they had no value in that equation. And so it's like,
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those guys should be like, just put a QR code up and be like, hey. Listen. Like, screw the merch tent. No one no one buys it here anymore. You use QR codes. If somebody went to online. That's why I never buy a concert t shirt because I will never wait in line. Like, like, it's my my personality is like, yeah. That's not happening. So I mean, I I personally when I have my own shows and my merch table is literally that. Like, I may have a piece to show, like, hey. This is what it looks like. Show it, but that's it. And then you scan the code. You save 10% online when you order it, but, like, don't you know, that's how I do it. But that's a sticker, get 10% off. Yeah. Exactly. And but it's insane that venues would take that percentage too. So, like, on the reverse, an artist doesn't make the money from the concessions. Right? They don't make when you when everyone sells and they're buying water and pretzels at the venue, that revenue is still just to the venue, plus now you're talking to merch, which is really the and that was what I was gonna say. The primary way, aside from sync licensing, which is the other thing we'll touch on, and that's what you mentioned with video games Right. An artist will really make their money is through their brand, right, through merch, through the sale, through selling a 1,000, you know, really well margin sweatshirts on their little run of tours. But major venues are starting to take the merge cuts. Independent venues, slightly smaller than the Live Nation run ones, they don't. They've actually made it a really big deal,
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to not do that, just especially in the wake of COVID and the concert industry trying to come back and how Well, and they want they want more of those smaller individuals in there because it really like, you know, you put a a big name on a 2,000 venue person. People pay a premium for those tickets.
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Phil, that would be the 2 nights.
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See most concerts that way because in, like, huge stadiums, the acoustics are shit and, like, you're awful. Yeah. It's not It's not it's not enjoyable at all. And my assumption is because it is bad, they're auto tuned anyway. Like, they're they're just playing shit and their mic their mic is barely on. And then when they wanna talk, they turn it up. And after that, they're it's they're they they're not actually they're singing, but they're they're not. Like, they're taking the main audio track from something else. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. But It's I mean, it depends on who who it may be and what you're doing, but you're not wrong completely for a lot of these acts. I mean, it's
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it's just like another it's like a giant movie. It's a giant production. So, like, the investors, like, we need this to be as perfect as it can every time. And, like, I don't know if you ever been to a small local concert, local band. It's you definitely don't want those issues that you have when you do it. Yeah. You get feedback. You get me. One thing so my favorite artist is, or band is Pearl Jam, and I love the fact that he Eddie Vedder still forgets the lyrics to his songs. Like, I I I know it's real.
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I love it. He's like, I I used to do the wrong verse first. Sorry. No. That's You guys got it. You sing it. I feel I've seen him do that in Vegas. I've seen him do that through the years. Like, you know what? You know the words. Just you do it. Like, and
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And I mean, I I imagine. So, like, I I have the blessing, the the great fortune to be the bass player for an R and B legend named Freddie Jackson who had hits in the eighties nineties and is one of the most famous legendary R and B singers of all time. And just to that's, like, really a big deal. Like, when we go out, it's a full live band. We don't do the program. He's singing for real. It's like, you know, a lot of artists who are older and stuff, that's the same issue. Like, you want they wanna sound the same as they did and, like, they don't they they use tracks and older things, but, you know, Freddie's out there performing and telling people, you know, this is real music. And sometimes we'll add stuff. That's like you gotta be on your toes just like any anything. Like, it's it's like an audible, right, in football or something. You're playing and you're like, yeah. We know what's coming next. It's the pre chorus. Oh, no. The
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he wants to do something else. Okay? Like, you gotta do it. Lost Man 1, see? Well, Keith's been in again. He switched keys? I'm done. That's it. I'm walking out of here. Yeah. Well, they We're gonna who's the guy for Johnny b Goode? Like, who's that artist? Oh my god.
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Is that Chuck Berry?
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Was it Chuck Berry? Oh, no. I'm thinking about the white guy from that area era.
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I'm think I was the only thing that comes thinking of Back to the Future. I'm like, who? Well, it's whoever it was. I I I can't get it anyway. The point was he was like, I could play anything as long as his key is c. It's like he's like I mean, it's like Honestly, like, that's a funny truth, and I and I love it because some you can really shred and and vibe. I mean, talk to blues musicians. Sorry. One key. But it's it's fun. Like, really
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Let let's pivot a second here. So, so let's focus your marketing around kinda like where it is. So, you know, people are listening here when I hear, like, a different take on marketing. What is it from your own kind of journey that you found? Because you're in the industry, but you still got a market. So are you more word-of-mouth and or how are you doing that? Like, so how are you approaching your own marketing yourself as a marketer?
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So that and that's a very interesting way I've been changing and developing and seeing what I wanna do. 1, using this book as that initial get out there. Use it. But I'm using a lot of word-of-mouth, on and social media. So, you know, I've been doing marketing for folks and stuff in the business for a little bit for 5, 6, 7 years. Now I'm like, hey. I kinda got my own thing going. Talk to me. Let me know. Spread that word. Let them know. I've done amongst my own so this is where you get into the interesting thing. I'm I'm an artist, and that involves its own branding and own set of things of of existence in the world. And now I'm doing the marketing thing, and I haven't yet split you know, I don't have separate Instagram accounts, for example, or TikToks
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just for Carter marketing stuff. So that's something I'm thinking about approaching too. There's a lot of people who do that, run, you know, little social media tips. I should be doing that. I do do that. I don't know. I mean, some sometimes I don't know if you just if it's all underneath your brand, just do it under your brand because, you know, I have multiple ones and it is a lot of work. Yes. Because you become their own business units. But if it's all around you, I would tell you keep it underneath your own, you know, hey. I'm a blues player. I got marketing services for musicians and whatever it is, And just keep it under your name.com, what kind of thing? Because I I would tell you, it is it is a heavy lift to keep a bunch of social media going. Oh, I Really? Trust trust me. I also
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very well wear as a social media manager for 15 years. I started with the Zynga days. Right? 20 years, I guess, actually. Man. Oh, jeez. Yes. No. You're I actually completely agree. And I've been putting little marketing, tips under my thing and trying to keep it authentic. So, like, that's the whole thing. I don't wanna all of a sudden be be caught up switching like, oh, he's he's just trying to market, and he's just trying to sell marketing service to us. Like, no. It's very important that I am an artist and that my artistry is still the number one thing, and then this marketing aspect is here to help you all as well. You know, I'm as much as it's here to help me and help me sustain things, I'm really here to help other artists create things like I've helped I've created for myself, if you will. And that includes, you know, Carter Fox to music, soulful traveler, which is my apparel line. All again, still, as you point out, still all connected to Carter Fox. It's everything is still under my own thing, and I try to, keep it that way. But, honestly, the best thing that's been working has been word-of-mouth. Like, I'll post stuff on LinkedIn. I'll share stuff about my book and stories. I I sketch sales, across Amazon. The book actually was a number one new release in the cat in the music business category when it came out in April. Congrats. That's huge. Yeah. It was try it was a I'm not trying to be like, I'm shocked, but it was I'm shocked. I'm super excited. Shocked.
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I wasn't saying that. I was shocked. You know, I would let's say I was shocked because it's because I didn't think it was a good book, but, man, I am shocked. Like like, I know. I think it's helpful, but, like You know what? Let me let me dive into that a bit because I have a book, like, you know, coming out. It's been coming out well, I it's been under a year still, but I'm I'm I've hired a ghostwriter to help me get it across the line, and and I'm hoping this, you know, individual can deliver. But I you know, you don't want it to suck. And at the same time, I also know that, you know, I've way overspent on it because I there's no, you know, like the average, you know, hybrid or even self published book may does me at best a few 1,000 downloads, right? And if you if you can do it really well. And so when you're doing that first book, how did you get past the you know, you're a musician, so you can't miss notes. And so I mean, your mind isn't exactly wired to be like, ah, good enough. Doesn't matter. Like, so how did you get through chasing perfect, I guess, get away from that? Because I I I'm assuming that I'm I'm making a big assumption just but I'm I'm assuming that that that was a challenge to to do.
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You're right. It definitely was, is, still is. I mean, especially on the music side. Right? Like, that it it went something done. With this book, it was very interesting where it I I I guess it's kind of we even kinda touched on the story of jumping into the consulting company and everything. I was working for a a company called Disc Makers since 2018, 2019 for a few years doing their social media and digital marketing strategy and different things. And I had written blog articles that covered topics about releasing music and promoting music and my own story of getting a million streams on a song. I actually started with getting a 100,000 streams on a song, and then it turn you know, while I was publishing the article and it getting featured around, it blew up and now has over 2,000,000, now, which is That's money, baby. Yeah. I mean, you know, you heard what I just said how much those are worth. But as far as I mean, you could buy a you could buy a cheesesteak at one of every the stores we mentioned earlier. Finally could. But, like, to me, you know, as a that's the thing to remember. It's it it is the financial side of that is nothing is not nothing, but it's it's minimal when you think, how many people are out there? Like, 2,000,000 streams. That's crazy. That is the most that's wild. How would you do that? You know, how how can one get you know, they don't as when you're in the business, you understand what the financial side of it is, but there is a true value to being that to having all that. Right? That's like having a record on the major radio stations, getting a big sync license. It is something really cool.
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But, anyway, back to, like, this Wait. Wait. Wait. I gotta pull shamelessly plug that. What was the song name? The song's called Eclipse.
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Just like the moon, you know, the moon and stuff. And Like, totally eclipse the heart. I feel like you rip Totally. Like, just like totally eclipse of the heart. But if you're if you wanna hear that song, you'll be disappointed in my song. No. Maybe. Yeah. But it's a it's a chill, groovy instrumental song. It's inspired by literally an astronomical event where we had a well, we were having this was upcoming, and this is when the song came out. There was a lunar eclipse, a solar eclipse, and another lunar eclipse happening within 3 weeks of each other. So kind of using my marketing mind to specifically release a song and tell that story while it was also a song about Minecraft and video games because that's what the record was about. It got you know, it started getting picked up from my personal networks, and then all of a sudden, Spotify actually picked it up, put it on the lo fi beats, the chill instrumental playlist playlist with tons tons of listeners, and it stayed on those editorials for 2 years, like, unheard of, like, for for, you know, my experiences. I've been talking with other people, and even with other people I've worked with to get and gotten on these, different
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different editorials. Let let's dive in the principle of that just a minute. So so you you went niche, and so you had a super niche without that nicheness, it probably you know, if you made it less
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specific than something like where it was, do you think it does the same, or do you think that nicheness helped? I think that nicheness helped. I think just having that one, you know there was so much right happening at the time, which is a horrible thing to say when you think about what the when I tell you what the timing was, which was July 2020. So, like, lot lot of great things happening when the whole world stopped moving. And everyone wanted chill instrumental music playing. So Spotify saw an uptick in everyone listening to this style of music. And at the same time, Spotify's editorial staff, the people picking out music, like, just how they're picking stuff. I don't know. You know? Now we're probably in the AI world. They're picking out buzzwords and certain things that come, and then they read it because there's a 100,000 songs getting uploaded daily to them. But, like That's crazy. It's it's an insane amount. But back then, you know, I I told my story. I'm like, I'm a chill instrumental jazzy bassist to write some music inspired by video games and positivity and outer space. And this song is about this, and it's coming out. This and I you know? And from there, I just I was sitting here and I fell out of the chair. Like, I I just kept getting emails of been added to this. Oh, now you have a 100,000 listener. Oh, now you've been at, you know, all these other things are happening. I'm like Now in that moment, you're like, that's it. I'm quitting my job. I mean, I was just well, I wish. Right? Like, the irony being I mean, I was a touring bassist for Freddie Jackson. So that's itself is almost it feels full time doing it. You know, we're out on the road. Just waking up early. You're playing anywhere in the world. And then I'm working I am working a literal 40 hour full time job with Disc Makers while balancing that and trying to gather things to jump start. This happens, and this is still 2020. And I'm just like, okay. Now I'm working from you know, no concerts are happening. So that whole Freddie thing was like, oh, pause because COVID, so nothing was happening. I'm like, there's no money. That's a lot of money to be missing. And then luckily, I have my day job. It's really you know, luckily, we didn't have to turn anything down like a lot of companies did for COVID because we started manufacturing face shields, excuse me, and pivoting.
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Sounds like you need a face shield now. You're gonna give me give my computer a virus. Right. Yeah. Be careful. Gotta call the Independence Day, guys. Love that movie. Wait. Wait. Wait. Are you talking about the movie where they blow up the White House? Yeah.
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Well, we just do it. In the movie. America the only place that gets any aliens? We just we figure that one out. I think because we're the ones making the movies. But if you start watching other countries' alien movies, they're the ones getting attacked. Usually They're they're getting attacked finally. She's Finally. Well, it's our idea first. Right? It was our idea, so we gotta get that. Or was it an alien's idea? Maybe there's mentally preparing us for it. I mean, okay. Not to go down that rabbit hole, but I 100% could believe that Hollywood like, that aspect. Like, we've talked I don't know. We but, like, I've heard that theory with, like, war. Like, remember how big war move I mean, obviously, war movies in the fifties, sixties, seventies. Because of all the conflict, they kind of was trying to desensitize people. And then also in alien movies. Right? All ton of them. So now I'm like Now we we people talk about aliens in the sky. Like, yeah. They're probably here. We don't actually are here. I mean, that's how I feel. Personally, I'm like, it would make no sense for aliens not to be around and I show a car.
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You you just experienced my number one skill from corporate world, which is derailing any meeting. I can do it so fast and so easily. I'm in the same find the thing I know you really wanna talk about, and I'll just throw it on the table, and it just becomes like putting bacon on a table to somebody who's on a diet and be like, you could just have 1. And next thing you know, they've eaten the entire plate. Like, that that's that's exactly what I do to people. And then I don't mean to. It's just I have fun with it. It's great. It's a great skill though because, you know, that that means you're in control. When you're not prepared for a meeting in corporate world, perfect.
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Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was Or even if you have a client that's it's things aren't going well with,
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you get in that meeting, and you might wanna you might wanna have a little couple of those in your back pocket. But, hey, guys. Let's really let's take let's let's talk about this later. So bad advice. Don't take that one. Alright. Great for entrepreneurs. Let's take a pause here. So so first of all, I always get around the, you know, 30 minute mark. I and we have more to come after this. Who should be getting a hold of you and and how do you want them to do that?
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So if you're a honestly, if you're a small business, if you're a musician, if you're an up and coming artist, man business manager, record label, you could also be a restaurant looking to increase your presence in your local market, or a dentist, or a lawyer. I also do all those kind of things, but I do focus really on entertainment businesses and movies. You can visit me online at www.carterfoxconsulting.com. You can email me at carter@carterfoxconsulting.com. Those are probably the best ways to reach me directly.
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I like it. Let me ask you something here. In your own journey and and you were you know, what are some like what's probably the biggest lesson you've kind of taken away from this this you see, you got a, you know, you got a crazy, crazy background. Right? And it's and it's and it's exciting because you you you're doing things you love. You're trying to balance making, you know, payments for things you gotta, you know, you gotta do in life. But, like, what's where's the where's the one less? And you're like, man, I really wish I would have done. Boop.
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You know, there's just I feel like there's a lot of things I could answer. I'm gonna answer the one I feel like I always answer with this kind of question, and it's be more out there. And I feel like I've I you know, you look at my history and and and stuff. This is like a networking and openness and personable kind of thing. Make your connections. And really, like, don't be be courageous and get out there. So, like, as I've gotten older, I've gotten a little more anxious for some reason in my life. I get a little more social anxiety when I need to go somewhere new. Which mean. Yeah. You know? I get like that. Like you would be, but I I get it. I think COVID set some of us over the limit. Just I think so too. I mean, I I I'm a performer. I've been a performer since I was 15.
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Right. When you just say that, I mean, that says a lot. Like, I really don't wanna be in front I probably on stage, though, you feel safe and comfortable.
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Yeah. Like, I totally love like, I and that's exactly what I say. I say after I play a show that went really well, I'm I'm that's when I'm there. That's me. Like, I don't know if that's just the intro, but I get right in my zone like, the zone I usually would always be in. That confidence. It's a confidence. Right? But, like, I went to a a an industry party by myself a couple weeks ago just to, like, tell this fun story. And I know I mean, I knew the guy hosting it. They were launching a new production company. It was really awesome. Good networking opportunity. These are, like, the top people in Philly. You gotta get out there. You gotta be in the room where it happens, to quote the Hamilton. Room where it happens. And and that's a 100% the truth. Like, that's you gotta be in those rooms. And I said hi. I was there for 5, 10 minutes, and I was about to leave because I'm like, I I I feel awkward enough now, but I was here. I did my mark, and I tried to do my thing. Someone else recognized me. It was like Carter Fox. And I was like, I don't I don't know who that is, but what's up? Oh, god. Do I owe you money? I'm just kidding. Right? I was like, hey. You know? How do I know know what? How are good to see you. I'm not even gonna worry about how I know you. Good to see you. Because he was like, yo. It's me from from the studio. I'm like, wonderful. And then I chilled for the next 4 hours, met every single person there, talked about music, talked about marketing, talked about production because, like, that's another aspect. Right? Composing music and and trying to get it in video games as we didn't quite mention, but, like, that's another big moneymaker is stink.
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So getting out there is the lesson there, and and I wanted to come back to that just from a from a own personal selfish because it's it's my podcast, and I do care about my audience. But occasionally, I ask questions. I just really wanna know. How do you sell Okay. There's a there's a reason. My my son is a fantastic singer who just wants to do like, you know, he's 12. He wants to do YouTube. Let's just let's leave all that off the table. But at some point he's gonna realize his gift of what he probably could do. And he loves video games. So I'm like, okay. I'm trying to find a way for him to make money doing it. How do you get a song
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or that type of stuff into a video game? Is it just networking and getting out there? Like, it like, tell me, can you talk do you know how to do this? And and first of all, and then how do you do it? Like, what's the process? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is the the theory. I know all the theory behind it. I've had some stuff synced, and I've worked on some in very independent low level games. I have I'm gonna shout out my friend who I shouted out a little bit ago, the artist odd kid out. If everyone looks him up, he actually was, like, the season 7 song in Rocket League. I don't know if you know that game, Rocket League. Yeah. He went I know of it. I mean, it's it's on the it's on the TV occasionally when the kids are playing. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't I mean, I haven't played that, but I as as I got it for, you know, seeing my boy on it, but I was like, he he got he got that sync placement. Right? That's that's what it is. So one, real quick. Hey. If he's trying to make money doing all that stuff, he should stream and try to do, like, the Twitch, all that. Right? Like, get all and can sing on there. Anyway, that's that that's that's I told him that. He's like, no one wants to hear that dad. I'm like, really? Because when you really actually can sing, there's not a human on the planet that doesn't wanna hear it except for another singer that can't sing as well as you. That's That's true. That's true. That's that that when you that's how you know you're doing something right when you get those kinda that kinda, like, sting from the other other singers and musicians. But I'm even trying to do more of the streaming to get because that's where people are looking at stuff. Right? YouTube YouTube is definitely that too. But how do you get synced, and what is synced? Sync licensing, synchronization licensing. That's getting your music placed in video game, television, commercial, movie, you know, all those big things. Like, just like, how many old songs just re blew up because of Stranger Things all because of those sync placements? People, especially working on Freddie's are, business side, I want that. It's the same those are the same level artists from the same era. Like, that's exactly what we want to have happen to Freddie, those placements. How do you get those? For a lot of artists and a lot a lot of these companies work with these music supervisors, it's gonna be a publishing company deal. You'll see, like, oh, universe especially because Sony makes the movies and the games, and Universal makes the movies and the games. They also own the publishing companies who are making the music for the games. So becoming a songwriter, is the, you know, a fast not a fast or easy way, but a great way. Yeah. You have you can break down into the I think that's probably the best way to make money in the industry. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a friend. I'm I actually, the other guy the only other guy I shouted out on the podcast, Orie Rose, he's a songwriter. He's from where I am. I worked with him a few years ago with a very, very well, known Grammy winning percussionist named Paulo Bautista. We were producing him, and he entered a contest, got on it, went out to LA. Now he has, like, 10 or 11 number one hits that he wrote with k pop artists. And including he he wrote a song on 30 seconds to Mars' new record, which I've been trying to work with those guys for 15 years just like as a huge fan of Jared Leto and the band. I was like, you got you wrote a song. Like, you're it's there. It's you yes. And then, of course, you write that. You get pick it gets picked up. It can get placed. Those are the major ways. You know, that's in the top level ways. Those are being on an artist, being a publisher. As an independent artist, how can you do that? How do you get those opportunities? There are companies and libraries out there you can enter. There's a company called Crucial Music. There's a company called thatpitch.com. You go to those sites. You submit your music. You may have to sign up for, you know, their subscription or whatever. There's a company there's a site called taxi.com that puts out, pit, pitch lists like these little blurbs that tell you what they're looking for, what music supervisors are looking for. People can you can submit it. Yeah. And you submit. It's almost like, how our acting's gone where you can submit Like, on backstage.com,
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and you can go submit It actually works. I I I think I signed up for that as one of my podcast host had said, and I never did it. I get, like,
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paying 5,000, paying a 100,000 Paying 20,000. I do do. I will do voice over work during especially during COVID, to do, like, anime voice over because I love that kind of thing, voice acting. And, yeah, same thing. But now my brother, who is an actual broadcast journalist, and he works for NPR up in, Ithaca. Bingham? Sorry, Brent. I forget where you live. He works but he would be I try to literally give him my account because he should be a voice actor. His voice is great, and, like, he could do it. But, yeah, how you you then enter these libraries with your music. There's tons more libraries out there too that you can independently submit to and try to get in. There's thousands of tracks and music things on there. For example, like, when you're on TikTok or Instagram and you click and you don't see, like, the major artists, but these other smaller artists sounds, that's like a sound library, in other way getting synced. Then you do get a small bit of money for every time someone uses your sound on social media and on YouTube and all that kind of stuff. And then So you're doing you just basically need to get your stuff, put it out there,
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and if somebody picks it up, that that's when you're gonna get it. And it's and it's really get it. Just get like, it's like almost putting yourself in the room, whatever the room is. And and in this case, it's just
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these digital platforms where where you'll have an opportunity to do that. I guess. Yeah. And if and, honestly, a cool cool thing you can do I mean, if you're a cinematic literal, like, film score composer, like Hans Zimmer style, it that may be harder to put your music out on SoundCloud and well, you can put it there, but, like, you know, on Spotify and blow up and be all big and then get jobs. Like, create a video. Like, create a reel, if you will. Like, grab footage from Lord of the Rings or so yeah. Something copyright friendly or something you use. Put your music under it. Put your score on it. Show people that example. And then, yeah, like, just like artists are trying to do now, just like anyone on TikTok or anything's trying to do, blow up and get that exposure. Like, it's you can all you know, I remember hearing, like, everyone's gonna have their 15 minutes of fame, especially as social media just becomes more and more out there and the thing. Like, someone can go viral every second, and it's about what can you then continue to do. Even with, like, my music getting huge on those Spotify hits, I've been you know, it's what can you leapfrog from that? How can you grow from that? Even entrepreneurially then. Like, you work with this artist. You need great stuff. Okay. Especially if you if you're in the services business. Okay. What's your you need to find that next client. How are you gonna bring a make? Does the manager have more clientele that you can expand with? Are you gonna have to now approach just using their experience, etcetera, etcetera. But, yeah. Yeah. Just getting it out there. It's really because it's a lot of I love it. You just like well, I like that though. I mean, because here's the thing. You you you you alluded to it.
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And I find this I mean, I'm online a lot, and I find I don't get enough live stuff. But every time I go live, like, in in person things, I get business from it somehow. So I get a new connection, then I get invited to the next thing. But you really need a plan for that. You need to make sure that you're out there. And if you're like like, I I you're an introvert, extrovert, which means once once kind of the ice is cracked when, you know this happens by the way in later in life. So I'm an extrovert, but I see so many bad extroverts that take over the room and conversations and you see people just being polite, but they don't so so the extrovert's assessment of their interactions are, oh, I was so like, they thought I was smart. I was interacting. Everything they thought I was laughing. They're funny. And their assessment is, man, shut the up. And and when other people talk, I'm tired of hearing you one up everybody. And, yes, I understand you've done everything in the world better, and you stayed in a nicer hotel there. Like, you hear this, but people are like, alright. Well, oh, and they and so I I once you see that and you kind of become conscious of it, you stop trying to do that. Especially when I was younger, I was certainly like, yeah. So Yeah. I've caught myself. Now I'm like, I'd really have ask more questions and be quiet. And sometimes I just don't wanna do you know? So it's not an excuse. It's just a realization where you are. And sometimes you just feel like, yeah, I just don't like talking to you yet because I don't because sometimes also I'm trying to avoid interacting with someone who is, like that. You're honestly, I'm gonna tell you a funny it just you know, we can cut this if we need to. Like, no. There's no cutting in here. You you you know It's going. It's going. I mean, I wanna tell you that exact thing happened to me. So I was out in LA
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a couple months ago just, you know, I finished grad school. I'm like, dad, I wanna, you know, I'm gonna go out to LA. I'm going. I'm gonna gonna be out there for a week. I'm gonna try. It's vacation, But, also, I got some gigs I set up. I got some recording things to set up. I met I actually went out, and it was the same thing. Like, this business I had a I was like, okay. Do it. We're here. Let's go. Let's get out of the room. Let's get to the place. And I met I met up with my business partner who I've worked very closely with for consulting out in LA at during this time and through just this little party that he helped put he's like, Carter, come to this thing. I literally drove an hour through rush hour, 5 PM in an Uber, all the way through then. 2 2 miles in LA. Just Yeah. Yeah. From it was Beverly Hills to to downtown, which on the map is this far from each other. It took me 20 minutes to get home, that long to get there, but I networked with someone. I was trying to be chill. I was a little nervous. Again, this this weird thing of, like, I don't okay. I'm totally out of my comfort zone. I know I'm a world tour musician. I got this, but so is everybody in LA at this thing. One dude comes. He's like, Carter, man. You know, this guy told me about you. Yo. Do you like Smoojet? And then we just kinda, like, randomly talked about some stuff. And I've literally seen this dude in person before 15 years ago because of this concert we were at that he was working. He was like a he was like a piano tech for a Brian Culbertson. He was a big SmoothJazz artist. And I I'm in that world. I had a record label in that world. I've been in that world for a long time. I'm like, dude, I was there. We've crossed paths in this universe. And because of that, we put music out together. We I got a song and a movie that hopefully will be coming out, I think, next year. Oh, that's cool. Movie because of it. Yeah. Like a real And it it tells you you should just go repeat that interaction model as many times as possible because the worst you do
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is the worst you do is nothing happens, and you just you you can also assess, hey. I I don't wanna be around that kinda that that group didn't add any value either from a personal or business connection level. It didn't always say about business. Sometimes you're like, ah, you know, now I go, you know, shoot baskets or play golf with somebody or whatever, and it's like Still great. Or you are you drinking IPAs on the golf course, and they don't make fun of you. Right? Yeah. Yeah. They're like I mean, it
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that's exactly what it was golfing golfing yesterday. It was just, you know, reconnecting and, like, okay. We got golf buddies. You know, maybe it's a new opportunity, but now it's at least something fun to do and more people to just know. But, yeah, getting out there. Yeah. So do do this with me. I I just conscious of time and I love this because you you and I, every time we've talked even off camera, it's probably just a little bit more time.
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What, fast forward next year. I I always ask I love to ask this question because I I wanna hear it kinda and and it and it kinda forces you to thank you a little bit. But what are you gonna be most proud of a year from now?
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Yes. I'm gonna be proud. A year from now, I'll have a new album out that's starting the singles are starting to drop. I'm gonna have a 1,000 books sold. I'm gonna have it sold of this of this beautiful book. And I will have had my most financially successful year because I was able to sign 10 new clients, which would be crazy. It should be wonderful. It'd be great. 10? It's 1 a month. I should be able to do that. Yeah. It should be easy. 3 month contracts per typically on average, maybe with continuing extensions. We'll see.
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I like it. I love it. I I love it. So alright. I'm gonna I'm gonna extend it. You're gonna have another 2,000,000 downloaded track. Yes. That's beautiful. Use AI to write, you feel a little guilty, but then you modded it and you're like, you know, who cares?
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Well, that's there's some AI tools that do the whole thing. There's some AI tools that kinda just help you, right, like, that are literally tools. So, like, depends, right, on one's feeling. I'm a I'm in that mid zone of a I'm a sample artist, and I'm bait you know, I don't but I I'm not gonna take something that was complete I didn't do anything with and call it mine. Like Right. If I'm using it to, like, help me tune something, I'm gonna use it. But I'm not gonna say, like, create a song. There's you know, create a song about,
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Kendrick and and Drake, and that's now my song. You know? Something like that. Well but, you know, it's interesting. It but it it could I think it probably could help with the hook and the and the, you know, all the other stuff that's with it. Right? Like, the the all the like, oh, how do I get a better hook or a better way to say this? What would be better? Like, I think that's I don't think that's a bad use of it as long as you're like, oh, I like that word. That doesn't it's too cheesy. What whatever it is. Right?
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Do you have any problems with that as being usage from an AI standpoint? No. No. Actually, that's a that'd be interesting to do that and use it for that because you got you know, algorithmically speaking. Right? Like, it's not the AI. It's using its own machine its own back learning to help you create something that would be, like, a better fit based on what it's thinking. It's not like coming up with the original idea initially and giving it to you. That's, like, the technical distinctions between them yet. I don't think we have that yet with AI. Right. But, yeah, that's the I mean, like like like, the this is the top
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smooth jazz, mellow. What was the category you talked about? Like, kind of like a it's it's like smooth jazz, relax what whatever the one you had originally done, you could say create a derivative of this song, basically. Let's say that Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, dude, you know what? You know what? Take that your challenge. Take your original one and make a derivative through Because people like derivative albums. Some people love, you know, like, you know, I I look at I listen back to some albums. I'm like, man, that that that that every song sounds about the same, but that's okay because the lyrics are different or if they're not lyric, it's just with variations. And it because it's your song it's derivative from, so it should be somewhat original. I would assume the things check that too. But I I would say try that and see if you could put an album out on a that's AI driven that you write.
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That's cool. I kinda I do dig that. I do I dig that too. No. I was gonna say, like, that's how I feel like major label writing sessions kinda become it's like a committee. Oh, no doubt. There there's a cookie cutter on it. With with that. Like, it using, like, a tool. I really don't look. I'm not I mean, I feel like I'm at the age where I'm like, look. It is what it is. It's coming.
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We got It is. And you're like, listen. I'm like, if I can get, like, maybe I don't know. I love it. I I love it. Out of the deal. He might as well Yeah. Exactly.
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Work smarter, not harder sometimes. Right? That's right.
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Alright. Hey. Listen. Hey. By the way, thanks so much for joining today. This is awesome. Once again, how do you get a how how do you want people to get ahold of you, Carter? Yeah. Visit me online at www.carterfoxconsulting.com,
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and you can email me at carter@carterfoxconsulting.com.
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Awesome. Thank you, Carter. I'm gonna catch up here in just a minute. And for everybody who's made it this far, thank you so much for listening. Carter's an awesome guy. If you get a minute, try to get time with him. And then specifically, like, if you're in his industry or you you have some marketing needs around that. I I mean, he's creative by by far, in in I've met with him several times just outside this podcast, and he's actually a really great human to kind of talk with. So, if you made it here, by the way, thank you. If this is your first time, please come back. You know, our mission is to help entrepreneurs get better at this entrepreneurship game. And if you can, you know, to your part, maybe just to give the the the great review on, Spotify or Apple and and get the YouTube channel at never been promoted to follow, it would be really, really appreciated. Until we meet again, I want you to get out there and just go unleash your entrepreneur. Cut the tie. No excuses. No fears. Just get it done. Thanks so much for listening.