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Welcome to the Never Been Promoted podcast and YouTube channel. I'm on a mission to help you cut the time to all the things that are holding you back so you can unleash your entrepreneurial spirit. Gotta love that funky music right there. Like, bringing it in. It makes you smooth jazz. I love it. So, anyway, welcome back. Never Been Promoted, podcast YouTube channel, the show that where we are out here trying to help you unleash your entrepreneur. If this is your first time here or listening ever, thanks for coming in. And our mission is simple: help millions of entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship. Cut that tie, all the stuff holding you back, the people, the excuses, that sense of entitlement you might feel, all these little fears you hold on to, you just don't need to. That's how you're going to be successful. You're going to need to do that. You know, we're going live today with Kevin Juza. I think I'm saying it right. He's probably gonna yell at me. It's probably something sexier like Juza. He's in the green room where we don't provide any snacks or beverages of any type. He has to bring his own. We're gonna bring him on stage. He's the founder of The Tenacious Leader, and this guy knows sales. And if you wanna know how to grow a company, you're gonna need to grow sales, as part of that journey, and we're gonna get into the weeds with that. As we're talking along here, you know, I want you to know that to you know, the thing we really want you to do is enjoy it. If you have questions, ask me. Go to youtube, dot com and, you know, maybe subscribe to the Never Been Promoted channel. Add some comments if you don't like the stuff. You know, hit me on LinkedIn. Tell me what you like, what you don't like about it, and, you know, give me a follow and or just, you know, connect with me and let's have a conversation. But enough shameless promotion. I'm bringing Kevin to the stage. Kevin, how are you? Hey. I just finished the Doritos. Thanks. Doritos that I didn't provide for you in the health nut too. I forgot to mention. He's a health nut. Right. Oh, yeah. Really? Alright. Kevin, thanks for jumping in. Is it Juza. Is that correct? Every letter, j u z a, Jusa. Yeah. Mac, I say, Jusa. It's I like the sexy version. Yeah. It's more like, you know, I use a he's The Tenacious Leader. He's too sexy. I'm down in San Diego, so I'm close to Mexico, so you could do the who's a I would think people would call you who's a, who's a.
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There's a lot of ways.
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You know, before we get diving into The Tenacious Leader, I for a minute there, when I first did it, I just saw the tenacious, and I was thinking, oh, it's Tenacious d. He's he's part of that music group, and he's gonna sing for us today. It's it's not the case. Alright. Icebreaker is not really an icebreaker question. It's more of what is the worst sales pitch you've ever heard? The worst sales pitch I And it could be I mean, your your choice of format, but what is the one you're like, I it's so bad. It's memorable.
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It's just like talking about yourself the whole time. It's when the customer just talks about themselves. You know? It's I was just working with a customer this weekend, and he is the founder of a great website and great tool. He's it's really cool. But listen to them talking on the convention floor. All he does is talk about the functions and features of the website. And the best sales pitch, you have to ask questions about what they are actually looking for. And so when you start pitching without knowing what they're looking for, you're just missing out an opportunity to actually build authenticity and connection.
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Do you see this a lot in technical founders? Yes. More so than sales founders. Like, they're like, oh, the features that like, let me talk about the code. How many got 40 millions? I see this a lot too when I talk. I'm like, no one cares about that, and they get offended. And you're like, no. They really do not care about that. I try to because they're so smart, because they are. They're brilliant people. But what I do is I try to get them to think about like a puppet master.
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You gotta think of you think of a feature that's so cool. What's a question to get people to come up with that idea? And make them take their technology and make it more complicated in their brain, which then makes them sound more normal.
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Right. I find certain cultures to, not that anyone's excluded from this, but certain cultures will certainly overexplain stuff when you're like, what does it do? And you're like 30 minutes into it. Like, still don't know what it does. Now I usually let people get to that part, but a lot of people will, and they'll be thinking, when does this meeting end? Well, that's great. Thank you. Great meeting. Good stuff. Have no idea what you do. We'll talk to you later. Kevin, you wanna you wanna talk about tenacious leader, what you're working on? Like, you know, give me the kind of the the 62nd pitch on that and then back in to why we should believe you. Oh, believe me. You're gonna solo layout mode. It's all tied. It's your turn.
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Well, I help small business owners who are good at what they do actually build the clientele pipeline that they need and want. Typically, their their their goal is to always for a solopreneur, their goal is to make that 20,000 a a a month in income reoccurring monthly income, but they get in their way of stuck in processes. And what I do is I help them break down and see themselves in action and getting things done in momentum and and making sure they're doing the daily activities that they need to be successful at. And no one wants to do those things, but that's where you get a coach to come in. The Tenacious Leader, I created that name because it's about never giving up. And when you're following a dream or building a business or trying to be good at sales or trying to be good at being a parent, whatever, you always gotta learn from your mistakes and get up and keep moving forward. And that's what makes us all have experience, wisdom, and success.
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You're just making shit up. I'll tell you what. There you don't get up. You cry in a corner and you quit. That's how you become a 69. If you don't cry, you don't care. That's true. And and and I I that's such a good point. It's such a good point. Like, there's a okay. Besides my wife being very smart and not allowing me to put a couch right here, which it would fit perfectly, this little IKEA horn tucked up to a bed, she knows I would probably nap on it more than I should because it's just dead quiet in here and a little warm. That aside has nothing to do with it. I have felt like crying in that corner over there many times. Like, what am I doing? I can't do it. Like and you're right. It's because I care about what I'm trying to build, what I'm trying to become. And if you don't, you gotta quit doing it. If you're just like, I honestly don't give a shit. I'm just here to check out. Then then check out because you or go to something else because you the no passion will you're just gonna end. It's gonna burn out. Maybe in your work, talk about that that fine line of I'm just so into it versus learning how to become the person you need to become to sell it. Like, the the changes that need to happen. So because because that's where it's hard. Right? It's like you you you're trying to teach someone who's uncoachable. So I'll be quiet, but, like, kinda set set up some of those initial challenges you run into when people, call you in.
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Right. Well, when I sit down and and a lot of times people stop in the agreement and moving forward working with me because they're afraid of what they're gonna have to face to actually get things done for themselves. You know, they have great ideas. They have the the process. They have the dream. But it's those step little steps they have to put in place to make it happen and get out of their own way. You know, I I work with clients that'll get stuck with with the marketing or the website or whatever. And really, you need to disconnect with people. You know, the power of sales, the power of reaching your goals is connecting with people that wanna listen to you. And the more you're afraid to say things, the more you're trying to hide of who you really are. Many times when I'm working with customers and listening to what they're trying to accomplish, I'm trying to really listen. Are they trying to tell me what I wanna hear? Or are they trying to tell me what they really believe? And when you believe what you're doing, everything comes a lot easier to happen, and you attract the people that want what you need. You're trying to be perfect to everyone. You never find anyone.
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Well, okay. So dive into that just a bit. So if you're trying to be perfect to everyone, you find it. So, okay. When you get called in, what's usually the trigger? Like, what what's the thing that's happened, or what are they feeling
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when they're, like, finally, oh, at least I gotta talk to this guy? So I'm working with a a founder who is a founder led sales team. Typically, they have, like, say, 20 people in their company, maybe a little more. So they're feeling that weight of, I've gotta be successful to to feed these mouths. And so they put all that work in in that sales pipeline, and they're so focused on never being able to train and teach other people that they go out and hire a salesperson. And you can't do that because an ego of a good salesperson and the ego of a founder, they clash. So the best thing for a founder to do is actually elevate people from around them into a sales role because they believe the founder. They believe in what they're doing. Now you're just giving them the tail the the tricks and the skills to actually be a salesperson to actually elevate the product and actually connect with people. I love hiring people coming into a company with no experience because they're more curious and more authentic talking to customers.
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Yeah. The and then once they bring you in, you talk about a little bit. But how okay. You talk about the hurdle. What what's for sure every time you you gotta get them by? Like, I mean, you okay. Because they wanna do it. They wanna get into this. And I know I would, but I'm curious what I don't know I'm gonna face. And you're gonna say to me, I'm gonna be like, so let's talk about that because bringing in a coach that actually can help you have sales has a real ROI effect. You just you gotta be ready for it. And so so talk through that kind of initial phase.
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Right. When when I sit down and talk with people, we do it's kinda woo woo. I know it's not really business, but it's woo woo. It's really what is your essence that you're trying to accomplish? And really finding out people to get down to their true reason for what they're trying to accomplish in their sales role or their business role. And once they really figure out their essence of who they are, what they're trying to feed within them, they can then be successful moving forward. And that's typically what's hard for some people to say out loud. It's hard for them to face that, you know what? I don't I'm afraid of failure. I'm afraid I'm afraid of of not being successful. I'm afraid of or on the flip side, if I get too successful, what would I do with all that money? I don't know how to take care of my family, my friends first. You know? So it's so it's sometimes we over complicate the true success. You know?
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How and, do you ever find that they have a false sense of what success is? And I'll give you example. I think a lot of people equate, oh, if I'm gonna become an entrepreneur, I'm in sales or whatever. I need to be like the 4 or 5 unicorns they've seen in the magazines. And yet they're, like, they're crushing it given wherever they are in their career and and or what are the like, you can't make a $1,000,000 on as a as a sales guy if the volume or the the numbers aren't there. But you're, like, you're I see that. Sales pitch is success
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around that. Yes. People are founders. What they use is revenues totally as their gauge. That's their grade. If I have revenue coming in, I'm doing success. And when you're a founder, when you're building a business, when you're building a sales pipeline, you have to look at the daily activities because those daily activities are your win. And so once you start signing customers, you make a good month. If you're not doing the daily rigor, you're never gonna get a next month. And so, typically, that's what really falls off. As we get going, they get momentum, they get some success, and then they stop doing the basics that they need to be doing every day to build a business Because that's where they relax on, then they fall backwards, then you gotta play catch up again.
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That that is, that's a great point. So so the success in is in the repeatability of the process. Because sales is really a process. People think it's chit chat and hitting golf balls. It's not. That that's that's after you many golf balls, but I love to go golfing. Right. I mean, when I go eat anymore, I hit I feel like I hit a lot of golf balls, and and I used to be able to just take a couple balls. Now I think I've The box. Your pack. I don't know. It goes far. I'm starting to go different anyway, the point being is it's really more of a process Right. With a bit of a style, meaning, like, you're getting try to get people to buy, less so just push, push, push. Have you seen a dynamic change though in the last maybe 5, 10 years of boiler room mentality to, you know, may trust base, like, get people to buy kind of idea, or or do the same rules been applying for for, you know, a decade or more?
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What I see in the marketplace is everybody's trying to go digital. They're trying to go with emails and everything social just and try to get that that social work that you don't have to do anything. It's a bot doing it through sales, LinkedIn, or a bot going out there on face, whatever, social media, and trying to get it all automated. And, really, I'm old school in the sense you gotta pick up the phone and you gotta talk to people. You gotta go face to face and meet with people. And that's the old adage is more people will trust you when they actually talk to you because they know it's real. When you're talking with somebody on your texting back and forth, you don't know if it's a bot or it's AI or if it's actually a human that really cares about what you're talking about. You know, it's like calling customer service and they're using bots to provide customer service. That ain't no customer service. You know, we've gotta sit back and really look at what really works in its human connection.
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You know, in this kind of, instant gratification AI world we live in right now, I I find it amazing how many very educated gen xers get a little bit younger. I I I understand because that's the world, but that where they expect overnight leads success in a in a in a trust sales cycle. And what I mean by that, it's often b two b or some type of higher ticket sales where you really you know, this is not gonna be like, oh, I tried it a $100 a month and we move on. Didn't work. This might be multi 1,000 of the dollars someone's gonna invest with your company or something else. And and they're like, well, I can't get you know, I'm not getting leads. I'm like, are you investing in the same things that would have worked 10 years ago, which is, like you said, have a 15 minute meeting with them on Zoom. If you're local, go grab a coffee. If, you know, you're going to a networking event, invite them. Like, things where you're starting to add value to the world. Are are you seeing that same effect where people expect things way faster just because there's this word AI, which people often equate to automation? Anyway, the point being is,
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are you seeing that as well and as a as a problem and a habit you gotta break as a mentality? Or maybe talk about that zone a bit. Well, the reality is if you're looking at a b to c customer base or a b to b. I specialize in working b to b because the buying cycle is longer than a transaction. And so you're trying to I do see in the marketplace people trying to use quicker sales, quicker process, and that really doesn't work. I can give a list of somebody on the phone and I can teach them after about 3 weeks how to call a list of people, a 150 to a 100 people a day, and they're gonna be making 1 to 2 meetings a week. But how do you get to, like, that 4 to 5 meetings a week? That's typically your people you talk to when you start building relationships. And I call it the connection pipeline. And you have a connection pipeline that you just keep fostering, keep building. Then all of a sudden, you start doing those 1 to 2 in the moment type of conversations, but you then turn the other ones in from the people you've built over time.
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And well and and what you're talking about too, if you don't have those processes in place to say, hey. Once you have a customer or you have a good prospect or somebody who's like, well, I I don't need this. I love what you guys are doing. Be able to have the process. Like, well, you know, listen. Is there someone in your network that you'd be more comfortable just making a simple introduction that might need the services where I can learn a little bit more about what we're like, looking for feedback cycles. Like, if you don't have those processes in place, you got no chance of really executing that with any rigor to get to that 2 to 3 to 4 to 5. Or do you see that a lot where people completely drop the ball on it, or is it something that literally, like, you're like, I'm almost every time I'm building this with with the people I'm working with?
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It's it's very repeatable what I have to do with people because it truly is just putting in the process in place. It's the it's the structure that you would build a foundation to a house on. You have to have some organization in ways for them to actually engage in what they love to do. So that's the that's the hard part is it is something that's repeatable, and people say this is boring. This is I'm I'm getting so many noes. And reality is 98% of the people you talk to are gonna say no, but you gotta keep doing it so you get to the 2%, the 3%. If you get good at it, the 5%, that's gonna say yes to you. But it it takes that example of figuring out that talk track that actually makes you resonate to the customer that wanna work with you.
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Have you ever been completely blown away or shocked, that that your own system didn't work with a customer and you had and and you you're, like, you had your own realization in pivot?
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I think it it comes down to sometimes when you're I get the question you asked before. What sometimes gets in your way is they say, here's the meet messaging. Here's the emails I want you to use. And this is like, we're not right. One thing that is new than what it was before is you can write a big book in an email, and that would help educate, especially if you're more of a logical customer. They'll read that and dive into it and go. But majority of the people aren't logical like that, and you have to keep things short snippets to it so they stay engaged. And so that's what I see as as the biggest connection with people is how do you how do you really connect to people in just three sentences? That's what it comes down to. And when you get people to read or react to their social media that that there is spaces for that stuff to educate or build relevancy, but it just takes that outcome to actually connect with people.
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Well, it does. And and and and your short versus long. You send me a long email. There's no I I mean, it could it could be like describing the the coming of Jesus Christ. I but I'm not reading it. I I I wouldn't. I'm like, you can need to put that in, like, the the subject line.
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Right.
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And, like, because I I just won't I I mean, in AI, it manages my inbox. So it's like for me to look at it something that I I no chance. It's just you none. Like and people who are thoughtful readers of emails, I feel I don't sorry is right for them because if they're literally going through all these emails, the the amount of spam they must get in a day must anger the hell out of them. Like, you know, like, because you you know, you're not gonna so I'd still think they'd appreciate a short email with some kind of, like, follow-up
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piece because, you know, I I'm with you. Here's here's here's one thing, though, about voice mails. I repeat kind of one thing I repeat all the time in coaching people, you listen to their voice mail, yada yada yada. Call me back at 858. You know what? I told them. They you don't need to leave your voice mail no more. You don't need to leave I'm sorry. You don't need to need to leave a phone number anymore because everybody sees your phone number. If you're wasting times and seconds, they're just deleting your message. So being relevant in your voice mail is is telling them what you're sending to them or what you're gonna do next. Building that trust through a voice mail. If they're gonna listen to you, you gotta connect with them something about either I emailed you about this or I'm gonna call you next week again and letting them know. You know, my voice mail, I probably need to put it back because I checked it there. They had 53 messages.
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It used to say, don't leave a voice mail because I I'm encouraging people just to text me. Mhmm. And so my voice mail sequence is, pound 71717, which is delete, next, delete. I don't even listen to them. There's there's not a thing on a voice mail I've ever missed where I'm like, oh, I should have picked that up. And and and so Right. If you're going to leave a voice mail and you start with, hey, it's over. If you write, you know, some something to the effect of, you know, I don't know what it would be because I might be listening. But, like, I thought you'll I have On a voice mail. Literally a second and a half to catch my attention before I hit 71.
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The voice mails now get translated into text messages now more than anything else. So people leaving voice mails, you gotta go slow, you gotta pronunciate, and you have to, like, have a good act call of action on there or a speculating what I'm going to do to build trust with them that, hey. If I don't hear from you, I'll call you next week. And then you call them next week, and you're building that trust that you're not just a robot, that you're actually a person doing your job. I I you know?
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Yeah. For me, I'm kinda like, you know, I exchange my phone number after I've interviewed or talked to somebody, and I'm like, just send me your contact card because otherwise, in a week, I'll be like, it's spam. I'm like, I won't remember. Like, you better send it out because I'll my my initial response is and I'm a pain in the ass because, you know, there there you know, I was asked the other day, like, you know, where I was discussing this with, my wife who's in HR. She and I was thinking I said, would this be an inappropriate response to a interview question of, you know, what are your weaknesses? And if I said something like, hey. I'm bad at pillow talk, and I have I'm a bad texter with too much brevity and typos. The problem is I don't communicate very I'm very short. Like, I don't have time. And, it doesn't explain the pillow talk part. But the point is that was my answer. She said that isn't actually a horrible answer to give. Just remember, I've never been promoted, so don't listen to any of my advice than what you do in an interview. And I've been asked to leave plenty of times. The point being is you gotta get the format right for the person who's like me. And the truth is if you can get my attention in short with the right call to action, it will work in long form, in my opinion. I don't think you need I think if you send long form, you are it's a huge mistake. Maybe maybe you fight me on and say, hey. I know. Maybe but if you're cold reaching out, it's gotta be fast to the point
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to say, yeah. You know, I'd love to get 10 minutes of your time to talk about that. Long storm is where I establish a relationship with you. And so after we have a conversation, then I'll send you a long form with more of the details that they have a chance to dig into. If they if they're interested, you know more, they'll connect with you. I think if you sent me, like, short, mid, or long,
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and I wrote and and you just like, hey. When when I send you an email that's I'm trying to add value since we've met, what's your prep? I'd be like, put mid. I like you in upper mid. That long's never an option. You should be like, good. Here's a mid form version of that. Right. It'd be like, oh, thank you. Like, I I appreciate you for asking. And so so one of our polls I'm running right now is, like, you know what? About 50% of the people right now say, getting meetings is their biggest sales channel. The other one's something else, but no one commented what it was. So I'm gonna guess it's
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Yeah. Getting meetings is is what or it's picking up the phone or getting meetings. And it's because they're looking for the meeting instead of looking to add the value and listening. It's the curiosity ear. So curiosity is a is a coaching word I use a lot when I'm working with my my clients. Because when you when you're curious, you actually give a shit about the person on the other side. And when you're not curious, you just wanna talk about, I wanna know if you if you're the right customer that's gonna buy from me. And if that's all your intention of talking to somebody, the other person is not gonna talk with you. If they pick up the phone and they say, oh, I'm sorry. I just about I thought you were somebody else, so I was just about to go to a meeting. I'm calling BS, and they picked up the phone. So now have a conversation with them. Real real, hey, I totally get it. Thanks for taking a call. Do you have 30 seconds? Let me just tell you what I'm here for. And you're building up a relationship with this person. You're building trust. And you give that 30 seconds, and you give them 1 or 2 more questions, and you try to bring a conversation. Then you say, before we go any further, do you have 30 more seconds? Because I know you're busy for a meeting. Okay. Go ahead. Because right now, everybody's on Zoom meetings, so they can put mute on, and they just go ahead and take their calls whenever they want. So if they care about what you're saying and you're connecting with what they're what if you're hearing what they're saying and you're connecting with them, they will stay on longer.
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It's, it's very rare I'll pick up a phone, but I and and you're talking about specifically calling. That does work when someone like, know you're super busy. I'm from here. We do this. You got 15 you know, you give me 30 seconds to, it it just to kinda tell you what, you know, how we generally Or you can tell me about 30 seconds about what I do.
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You know? You kinda make a joke about it, but it's like you're you they're designed that conversation is you gotta realize, you have to bring this person from the world he's in to the plot of the story you're trying to tell him. And so if you're not able to put them into the the the conversation and where they need to be thinking, are you thinking business growth? Are you thinking development? Are you thinking training? Are you thinking coaching? Whatever that is, you gotta tell them, the reason for my call is I wanna do you know, letting somebody know that consciously the reason for my call, people are more likely to actually understand where you're coming at and then engage in your conversation.
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Yep. I also do sometimes too because if I'm looking for someone to to to be a good dialer, I'm like, hey. You did a good job. Are you happy where you're at? Reverse recruit them. I I got recruited all the time on the phone when I was doing it on the phone. You know, you're doing it right. Alright. So talk about some of the trends in your industry. You you talk a lot about dialing, but there's a lot of things coming down the pipe that's making it harder. So you want to talk about some kind of threat, not threats, but things are impacting how sales has been done and some of the maybe methods you're teaching. So maybe talk about the trends and what you're doing to kinda coach around it. Well, there's so many trends out there right now that are making everything's automated, and and
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people can do 20,000 emails a day. And so that's really being slowed down and and and connected through their their spam filters and things like that within organizations. Customers that have relationships with peep with a with a client, they can't even get their emails through. So you have to realize that it's an all you gotta take your 5, 6 different strategies to go after and connect with people, and you have to stay on them consistently to actually break through to make yourself valuable to someone. So just know that you can't give up. You just can't trust one thing. You just can't do social. You just can't do email, and that's your one way to get people going. You got to bring them into your world. And once they break through, then hopefully, you can establish something. Just like you mentioned, texting is something that we haven't really taken advantage of yet. And so more and more, I think government's trying to get a hold of and making sure that doesn't get abused, but we have to be ready for all the ways to actually connect with people. With COVID, we all kind of started working remotely more, so we don't really have an office phone anymore. Companies are saving money by not providing phones for people anymore in their office space because they're just forward everything to a cell phone at the cost of of their employees. So, no, more people are more mobile, so you have to really know you're catching them where they're at. Yep.
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Do you still recommend calling me at 8 o'clock at night?
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If you're on.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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No. You I do not. I when I get callers business, the business, you have to be 9 to 5. It is. You have to respect that environment because most even though people work outside that, you you have to respect that the zone of business business out.
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I will say when you're doing something like the let's say, like a new deck or getting landscaping quotes, I'm actually okay with those ones coming after. Be like, hey. Listen. I'm available this time tomorrow. Now that you picked up the phone, would you you want me to stop by after work? That works because, you know, I'm not gonna get my time during it because I'm too busy. But after, if it's some kind of outdoor, there's there's there's and the point of that for for is that there's not one size fits all for your business. If if you're trying to get somebody for, you know, to help them with time savings, unlikely you're gonna get them during the middle of the day. Right. So it's like you might be like, hey. Listen. You're busy all day. I've tried. This is what I help you solve. Like, oh, okay. Well okay. Great. Let me let me talk to you. I I think that's amazing. In your own journey, talk about your own journey here a little bit. What did you really, like, loved about building your company? And what's the part you wish you could just never have to deal with?
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What I love about my journey of what I do as a The Tenacious Leaders, actually just the helping of people. I love seeing moments on people when they get stuck, and I and I keep showing the mirror in front of them, and they go, I get it now. And the and the light bulb goes off, and then their business starts rolling. Had a client that that we had a very niche niche product, and we only find 500 customers to go after. And we were able to make it very simple. And they were able to get 40 meetings, 40 conversations with 500 leads. And that was like a woo hoo. That was like that was such a win and so powerful. On the flip side, what I hate figuring out is I hate copywriting. And so I hate sitting down and try to I love chat gpt to help give me some of that thought provoking ways of typing and editing. I hate I'm just not I I love connecting with people who are marketing people that can help me do that part because wordsmithing, I'm too casual in my conversation conversational writing. Mhmm. But, that's what limits me the most.
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Or do you help, the organizations? Like, one of the votes was for differentiation, and and that's one that a lot of people struggle with. Because I can be saying the greatest thing, but if I don't have differentiate on in the messaging, phone, email, whatever, text, it's just, you know, everyone's selling vanilla. Right? And so do you help them with that, or where do you see people kind of fall apart? Just just take a few moments to discuss differentiation because it is it's a tough thing to do, with a business and what you're doing and selling. But how do you handle that with your customers?
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When I try to figure out the differentiating factors of people, it's really what are you truly trying to solve? You know, because I sit down, I work with fractional CFOs. Fractional CFOs will tell me everything they do. I specialize in simplifying the process for people. I go through and operationalize and make things you sound like everybody else. How do you make yourself different? That's where sometimes you do have to niche down to a specialty, but still come across in a way that's that can can mold into different niches. But just knowing that you have to sit back and and know what you're truly trying to help. When you when you can focus on truly guiding to where your purpose is and what you're trying to accomplish, the differentiating comes apart. But when you sound like everybody else, if you look at your 3 other people that compete what you do and you sound the same, your website's the same, you're a commodity now. And so you're truly trying to get people to connect to who you are.
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Yeah. I think some of the differentiation sometimes comes in the presentation of the problem you're specifically solving. And and and a lot of times, it's it's just because that person has that problem because you know they use some system or you know that they have, like, an affinity towards something. And you come in with, like, the problem you know that that offering or whatever it is, product service, you know, tech, SaaS, whatever, it doesn't solve. It's almost like it's not false differentiation. It's just recognition of a problem that you said, but we solved that really well. Now they'll get your technology, your products, and find some shortcomings in other areas. But the the the idea is to break through. Sometimes it's just in the the message to the problem itself. And if you're solo, sometimes the differentiator is you, and you gotta own that. That when you work with me, it depends on what you're selling. Right? You you you get this brain, this this background, whatever else. Not a scalable, but that's sometimes how you start. What do you do though in that mo moment though? I guess the question is with a solopreneur type where the differentiation truly is just that person's knowledge base, their approach, their attentiveness to customer service, whatever it may be or the combination. How do you break them out of that from a sales process
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to scale? Kinda go full circle of our conversation. If if they're not if they don't know what kind of questions to ask to actually connect with the people they're talking with. When you sit down and you go through interviews or or plays or discovery calls, how are you actually what questions are you doing to connect with the person? And so you can set them up to be right in line with where you're trying to able to help them. You know, I was working. I was talking with one of my friends the other day, and he was like, I just started off by saying instead of being a transactional CFO, you know what? I'm gonna help you take stuff off your plate. How about we'd start with that, and then we go from complex systems and processes later? Let's give you an hour or 2 back in your day. And that was, like, what people needed to hear who are stuck building a business, and they needed better systems and processes in place. So, really, it's finding the right questions that get the customer to actually engage what you're trying to help them with. Yeah.
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Maybe talk about a little bit how you're using technology. You got all this AI out there, and it could be overwhelming. What's the right balance? What do you recommend to to help in the sales process? You know, I think you talked about content a little bit, but how else can you use it to to really nail down the the sales portion of this?
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I mean, there is automation when it talks about outreach and building awareness. There's so many automation tools out there that can help you build your build your social world, plus building up that follow-up. That's that's one of the key things I see missing a lot is the follow-up. So once somebody posts or likes, making sure they're getting some love or some attention from you is very important. And that's something that could be easily automated, and it could be general, but it could be also something that automated to put into your box for a to do list. And make sure it's more personalized in how you feedback it. But you can't you can't ultimately kinda like that rice maker, lock it, forget it, and it'll be done in 20 minutes. You happen to stay engaged in all your automation so you can always know is it still relevant. Is there something else coming up here that you can be personalized to make it specific for that person? It has to
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be. What's up? You know, it it you know, who I always like this around 30 minutes or so. Just tell me about who really you work really well with and what you know, should they go to tenacious leader.com? How should they get ahold of you? Like, who is it you want to get ahold of you? If I if I want somebody to hold, I wanna be the perfect customer for you. So so not that anybody else can't. Who's the perfect customer you wanna get ahold that you want to get ahold? Customer for me is a is a founder led organization
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that just keeps hiring wrong salespeople. I'm the best person to come in to help understand how to build a system, a sales process around that founder, so they can get their life back, but also start building something in their organization that can be repeatable and build something that they could be proud of. That they know that if they're gonna talk to a customer or a prospect, that they're gonna say and do all the right things. And when you're when you're when a founder is able to then have a team around them doing the sales stuff for them, they're happier because now they're just closers. They're just coming in, closing, and welcoming in the new clients and keeping that going so they have more time strategically developing and building an ongoing business. What,
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you know, I I I appreciate coming on today. So what what's what are some we'll start with one question. What's a question I should have asked you, but I haven't yet?
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What be being tenacious, what has, what where do you find yourself to to, to fall short of to be not being tenacious?
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Your your personal I know I was gonna ask you that. I'm glad you did. What how would you answer that? I mean, I I was it was right there. I'm glad you said it because I wasn't sure.
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Yeah. Reality is it's kinda like cobblers have no shoes. When sometimes it's it's it happens. The reason why I'm out here promoting myself, talking to myself because I want more customers. And so you have to have other avenues, and so you have to be always in action doing something to build your business. You know, I I have here a coffee mug that I call thoughts become things, and that's something I work every day to make sure the right thoughts are coming in to me, to make sure I'm doing all the right activities to build a business that can provide the the the livelihood for my family, take my kids to college and trips. And if I don't have myself stay focused on what I need to do every day to promote myself, to build connections, to keep things going forward is is what I need to do. Yeah. Taylor's kids are often naked. I mean,
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you get to it. You but you know what's funny is that, sometimes when you have the power of of understanding the process, you spread yourself too thin. So, for example, you know, we get social media in my company. I find sometimes like, why am I on all these other social media platforms and not just focusing on LinkedIn like where the bread and butter is. And and YouTube's a really good one for us as well. But but then it's like, because we have the knowledge, we can do it okay sometimes on the other channels, but it's like is is that a distraction? Maybe in the sales world, do you see that same thing where someone's like really good at the interactions and and but they they are spreading themselves too thin by not staying
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in that focused zone? Like, are you, like, is that happening or is that just me? I'm asking for a friend. Lane. You do have to pick your lane because you can't do everything. And I think being good in everything but being great at one thing is where you go. You know, when I do 1 on 1 coaching, working with people, strength finders, that book and that test, that is something I I build on people's strengths more than I try to fix their their flaws. Because if you build somebody's strength if I could be better and better at more and more speaking engagements, and I do more and more and I have fun doing it, I'm empowered doing it, all the writing go ahead go away. I'm not good at writing, but I love talking and connecting with people. So more I can talk and connect with people, the less writing I have to do. So you gotta focus on your strength and make it happen.
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I love that. And and, in in I I'm one who says definitely focus on your strengths, become, like, the best at it. You know, Tiger Woods, great golfer. Right? Can't drive a car very well or do some other things that's kind of really screwed up his career. But he but in his prime, greatest golfer, you would have no idea if he could throw a football or not. Like, you don't even care. Like, don't you know, I think he tried to become a Navy SEAL. It's like, why exactly? But the the point is and that screwed him up. He got hurt. Michael Jordan. Right? He went to baseball. He went well, I think with the baseball, the rumor was allegedly because he has a lot of money. I don't assume. Oh, okay. He was trying to build his other business. There was a lot of stuff going on, I think, where he may have been ran. Right? We asked to leave the NBA for gambling and some other things. There were you know, his father had been murdered during that time. That was kind of really weird circumstances. There was a lot of shit going on that maybe he had to take a break, and this was their way of letting him do that gracefully. I don't know. So, we won't get into that. That's just conspiracy theory. We can throw it up later.
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If I was selling a book on it, we would You know a lot you know a lot more than me. I was just bringing up the the Right. Well, I don't know.
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I am not shy to say I have a Stanley. I just want you to know that. There you go. At least it's it's in your hand. It's not one of the, like, the The giant one? The the Maybe I'm just huge. Maybe that is a full size one. I'm just Maybe that big nail. You're right. I'm digressing. Kevin, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I'm gonna you know, I really I love what you're doing. I love meeting guys who really understand the sales process. Even for myself, it was a, understanding what a salesperson is, and and it's taken a while for me to understand that it's not it's not the, you know, gregarious figure. I actually think introverts are better at it than extroverts because they are more likely to wanna say less, listen more, and follow the process so they don't have to make up because that's where they're like, ugh. I get cringey. Right. That might be my final question to you. Introvert or extrovert? Who's better at it?
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Well, it's all about service. And so I sell through service. I don't sell through commission or or or drive or pressure. How do you how do you ask the questions to actually serve the customer more? And when you're serving, you'll sell more. And that's my mantra. So I would probably I I it can do either way, but it's more of the personality internally. Are you a server? Are you greedy? And I and I would rather take somebody with no sales skill that but sales and cares about other people, and I'll make them good at sales.
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I like it. I think you said introvert. I'm gonna go with that. I'm a I'm boxing you in, damn it. It's probably a version of, it's like the it's the extrovert that seeks solitude is probably the right answer. It's somebody who's okay being out there but
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really would like to pull it back, doesn't need people all the time. Yeah. My boss would say once he had a meeting, he'd have to go home for, like, 3 hours and just
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be himself, by himself. No. I'm I'm with that. Like, I'm I'm the same way. I'm on camera all day, but, man, if you if you meet me in public, I'm kinda like, hey. I'm just that's not fully true, but it's like it's somewhat true that I kind of like when you're when you're in in a mode, you kinda just you need those moments of reflection because you're on and also you're like, I really need to be off for, like, 6 hours. I don't wanna talk to anybody. So I I get that. I think the older guys are 2, you're more assessing and processing so much more. Exactly. And you're and you're kinda see things not just one dimensional. You're looking at everything's more dynamically.
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And so it does make you more introverted the older you get in sales, versus, younger where you're like, come on. Let's let's go. Let's go. It's the extroverts kinda drive people crazy.
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They do. And I was certainly one growing up that didn't care what your opinion is of me. I was there to entertain myself. And if other people laughed, it only fueled the fire and annoyed the people who were. I would not get along with a person like me just at all. And as I've gotten older, I've realized I've never won or lost a deal because I drive a 20 13 minivan that's got dents on it. I got kids coming up. Could I get a nicer car? Maybe. Do I want 1? Not really. I just want it to run. I've realized that you don't need flash. You could just you gotta be there. The other thing I've realized is I've never won a deal because I talk too much, but I've certainly lost one. Oh, yeah. And I've certainly won deals on days where I just didn't have energy, and I just listened and used pauses, and didn't expect that. I'm like, maybe I'm on to something there. I don't know. It's true. The power of the pause. Yep. The power of the pause. And as a podcast host, I am practicing pausing.
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I appreciate that. You are. Welcome.
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Jay, Kevin, thank you so much for coming on. Kevin Dusick, get The Tenacious Leader, you rock. Thanks for for joining us today. Cheers. Appreciate your time. Hang out in that green room. It's not so green, and I'll be right back with you. Thank you so much That's okay. For coming on today. The Tenacious Leader, Kevin Juza. If you're in San Diego or in Northern Mexico, they're gonna use a. And if you're not from United States, truthfully, this podcast is for everyone, but I want the United States to have more entrepreneurs. I think we need more of them. It makes our country awesome. It's not that the other countries aren't awesome, but I feel like our country needs this as a competitive advantage. That's why it's part of my mission to find, the way to help a 1000000 entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneur ship. That's right. See the pause I threw in there? Learning from my mistakes. Kevin, thank you once again. Check him out at tenacious leader.com. Get some time with him, to to just kinda learn what he does because he really is super knowledgeable in in a way that is fun and interactive and, not cheesy. He kinda practices his own, his own, you know, his own prayers and preacher and gossip and gospel. He he he gets right into it. If this was your first time, thank you so much. You know, come back again. I hope you can follow, us on socials. And if not, you know, subscribe to YouTube @neverbeenpromoted. If you love the show, leave the 5 star review on the podcast. And if you don't, you might have some suggestions or you wanna come on, check me out on on LinkedIn and get in touch with me. I'll I'll it'll actually be me, and I'll I'll happily, have an interaction with you. So we meet again. Get out there, cut the tide of stuff to hold you back, and unleash your entrepreneur. Thanks for listening.