1
0,00:01,000 --> 0,01:14,000
Welcome to another episode of Never Been Promoted. Our mission is to help a 1000000 entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship, and we do that through the journeys and stories of other entrepreneurs like you. And if this is your first time here, I hope it's the first time of many. And if you've been here before, thank you for coming back. I always award dad points. It's a silly cheesy thing I do to thank you for coming. And if you know what those are, you can explain it to the person next to you. Alright. Before we dive into our guest, I want you to you guys know that, you know, it's super important to learn one thing from any one of our episodes. And you can do this from almost any entrepreneur because they've succeeded, they failed, they've struggled. And if you can just pick up just that one thing today, you're well on your way. Now if you like the podcast, I do ask go Apple, go Spotify, go to Amazon, give it a 5 star. It really means a lot to the community, to the guests because it helps them have their shows be be more visible. And if you don't like something, just send me an email, and I'll see if I can fix it. And finally, subscribe to the YouTube channel at youtube.com @neverbeenpromoted. Today's guest, let's get into this here a little bit, bringing to the world of finance officers, executives with Lance Osborne. He is the founder of Osborne Financial Search. Lance, how are you? Good. Thanks. How are you? I'm doing well. Very well. Nice to meet you. You're in Canada?
2
0,01:14,000 --> 0,01:15,000
Yep.
3
0,01:15,000 --> 0,01:26,000
It's it you know, we're filming this in April end of April here in 2024. I think it's appropriate to then do an icebreaker question because it's still freezing there if I understand that correctly. Yes. An icebreaker
4
0,01:26,000 --> 0,01:31,000
question in Canada is very appropriate.
5
0,01:31,000 --> 0,01:39,000
I think this is a good one for you. K. What's the worst advice anyone has ever given you?
6
0,01:39,000 --> 0,01:54,000
Oh, that's a good one. What's the worst advice? It might have been buy whole life insurance.
7
0,01:54,000 --> 0,01:59,000
We you haven't died yet, so that's good. Why is that the worst advice? I could I don't , I don't know. I just
8
0,01:59,000 --> 0,02:46,000
I just think whole well, my dad was in the insurance business for his entire career. And he started off in sales, and he worked his way out to branch management. He eventually became an executive, and he was always and this is in the this is in the sixties. So it's still very old school. Kinda madman era. And, you know, a whole life a whole life insurance and an annuity was considered the of financial planning. But that is, you know, from my dad's generation, it might have been. But, you know, as I research it a little bit, I and I'm not I'm not slagging whole life insurance. I just don't know that it's all that practical for most young people. And that's all I could think of at the spur of the moment, Tom. Sorry.
9
0,02:46,000 --> 0,03:08,000
I mean, there is I I have the same opinion. I'm like, people keep trying to sell it to me and and for years, and I've said no, and and I get it fixed. But then I'm like, I feel like it that's what makes you the most money is why you're pushing it on me. And Well, that's what I'm saying. Kind of it too. And also and as I reflect on this, I'm just like, why haven't I why can't I, you know, access other little vignettes of
10
0,03:08,000 --> 0,04:14,000
really bad advice? And this kind of thing, I can't really access that much information on advice given to me, period. And I think that might be I'm not the guy who normally takes advice on people that know me kinda and I think I I think I share this trait with a lot of entrepreneurs is, you know, if you're not an entrepreneur, you're not a guy who you're not a guy who goes by consensus. You don't take polls. You don't put together committees. It's kinda like you got the idea. You got the vision. You can see it. You know where you are today. You know how you wanna get to to where you wanna go. And you don't ask people's advice or permission. You just kinda go do it. So and that and by the way, I wish I wasn't like that. Back you know, when I started out 40 something years ago. You know, I started my first business in 1985 when I was 29. And, goddamn, I wish I had, I wish I'd asked around people that were smarter than me, but, of course, at 29, I knew everything in the world. Oh, yeah.
11
0,04:14,000 --> 0,04:18,000
If I was as smart as I was at 29 now, I'd be, wow.
12
0,04:18,000 --> 0,04:22,000
Yeah. No. I'd be I'd be a combination of Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr.
13
0,04:22,000 --> 0,04:38,000
Well, I just get dumber. Every every year, I realize how little I know. Yeah. It's it's unbelievable. Well, actually, so start. So it gives you know, kinda gives your origin backstory and and and, you know, lead us into what you're currently working on. Sure. Okay. I got into the
14
0,04:38,000 --> 0,12:12,000
the recruitment business. I didn't I almost said search, but back then, it wasn't the search business. It was the recruitment business, and there's a difference. So, just very long story short, there are 2 iterations of recruitment firms. There's placement agency and there's an executive search firm. And a placement agency does lower level kind of, assignments, in the world of accounting as accounts payable clerk, accounts, receivable clerk, you know, AP supervisor, general ledger account, whereas an executive search firm does executives. So in my world, that is chief financial officers. But I when I got in the business, I started with a placement agency, because I was a kid. I was 24 years old. And I didn't know any better. I didn't I didn't I came from a small town, so I didn't actually know what a placement agency was because they didn't you know, you didn't have them in the little towns that I lived in. I got in the business. I worked for somebody else for a few years. I did not I thought the I thought the recruitment business was a good business. I didn't think it was done right, for any number of reasons. So I started my own firm in 1985. And I had a I had I I talked earlier about a vision. I had a vision. And what I saw was in accounting, there was a middle market that nobody was addressing. There were lots and lots of placement agencies if you wanted to hire an AP clerk, an accounts receivable supervisor. There were some executive search firms that you could turn to if you were looking for a CFO. But if you were looking for a middle market financial professional, in Canada that in in the states, you had CPAs, certified public accountants. In Canada, you had chartered accountants, and you had certified management accounts, and you had certified general accounts. There was much more of a hierarchy of accounting professionals in Canada. And I determined that the world of chartered accounts was underserviced. Placement agencies didn't have the sophistication. Executive search firms didn't have the interest. So I started a firm called Atlantic Associates that just specialized in that young up and coming professional right through to senior finance roles and built it over the course of 25 years into the premier middle market search firm. And we were kind of a hybrid model. We were still technically a placement agency because we didn't work exclusively on retainer. But we did a lot of retainer work, and the quality of the work that we did was all at the retainer level. For some reason, and this is another one where I wished I'd taken advice, I decided I'd retire. So I sold my interest. And a part of it, what I know I know this influenced me, I just got I just got remarried. And I thought, oh, this is great. I'll, you know, sell my business, and I'll retire with my new bride, and we'll just honeymoon for the next 30 or 40 years. And I did have friends say, are you out of your little mind? You're only 54 years old. You've been that guy for years. You're not gonna be that guy just because you decide and I didn't listen to him because that's kinda how I roll. And so I retired, and, by the way, year 1 was tremendous. My wife and I traveled all over. We spent the summer up at our cottage. We skied. It was fabulous. 2nd year was fine, but a little bit same old same old. 3rd by the 3rd beginning of 3rd year, I was ready to turn my hair out. And I said, okay. I said, well, you know, 1985, I had one vision. And I didn't wanna do that again. And by the way, what I had created in 1985 had been adopted by so many other firms by 2014 or sorry. 2020, 2014. Yeah. When I started this practice, it was no longer a unique selling proposition to just work with chartered accounts. Because my old firm plus, probably a dozen copycats were were all working that market. And what I recognized or realized what, the next idea for me was, the CFO market for owner managers was underserviced, I thought. For the same reason that I had, same, logic that I had when I started my first company, I looked at that market and said, well, if you're an owner manager and you own a $75,000,000 business and you need to hire a CFO, What are you gonna do? Well, your options are placement agency. And once again, a placement agency is not in the business of search. A placement agency is in the business of placing the people they already know. If they don't have the person that you are looking for, they'll see what they do have, and they'll see if they can make that somehow fit. They don't and they they typically work on on a contingency basis. So because they don't know if they're gonna get paid, they don't invest a lot of time and effort into actual search because the client who's, asked them to do the search on a contingency basis, he or she could be working with another placement agency. They could fill up the job on their own. They're not the the client is not committed to the agency, so the agency doesn't fully commit to the client. So that's so that's not really an option for the c for that owner manager of that $75,000,000 business. Whereas, Korn Ferry, Spencer Stuart, Heidrick and Struggles, all the traditional international true executive retained firms, executive retained search firms, they have no interest in that business because the fees are too small. They don't wanna find, they don't wanna find the CFO for Lance's Manufacturing. They wanna find the CFO for the Bank of New York. So Yeah. That market is, underserviced. And the other thing that I thought I for a unique selling position, going back old school Xerox selling skills back in the seventies, Unique selling position. Almost every owner manager I ever met comes out of operations or sales or grandpa started the business. They don't come out of finance. So when they are looking for a Chief Financial Officer, and by the way, in the world of owner managed businesses, Chief Financial Officer just means you're the head of the finance function. You could be a VP Finance, you could be a Director of Finance, you could be a Controller. The, and whether or not you hire a Controller, Director of Finance, or a VP of Finance is a function of the size and complexity of your company. But any of those iterations is a chief financial officer. So my but my point is is that if you don't have any background in finance and you're looking for a chief financial officer, you don't necessarily or really know
15
0,12:12,000 --> 0,12:24,000
what you should be looking for. Yeah. Well, given the level your your where your business is and where you think you should go. Right? Right. There's a different skill set for all that. I mean, are you money? Are you trying to, you know, etcetera. Yeah. Exactly.
16
0,12:24,000 --> 0,12:51,000
How many jurisdictions are you in? How complicated is your I know some businesses are dead easy. Some businesses are really complicated. There's all kinds of issues, and I can really add a lot of value. I I can advise owner managers on, what they should be looking for and what the issues are. And I actually I don't know if this gonna this comes in reverse. I wrote this book
17
0,12:51,000 --> 0,12:59,000
called Get It Right. Hey. Listen. I am a big fan of plug away and shameless plug as you get it. So what what what what's it called?
18
0,12:59,000 --> 0,13:57,000
It's called Get It Right the First Time, the owner and manager's guide to hiring a CFO. And this is not war and peace. This is a very easy read. It is a primer on hiring a financial executive. And I talk about why you should, not do by the way, a lot of a lot of, executives, they hire their protocols for hiring chief financial officers or finance executives aren't very good. So for chapter 1, this is kinda what you're doing wrong, and then I talk about how much horsepower do you need, and what are compensation considerations, and what you should know if you're gonna do it yourself, and what you should know about working with recruiters, and what you should know about the interview process. So at least it gives you a solid grounding. Yeah. When you're looking for a CFO. And although I do have a chapter in that you could do it yourself, I do make the point over and over again,
19
0,13:57,000 --> 0,14:29,000
you should use me if you wanna do it right. Well, I mean, think about this. You can do your own taxes. Probably not advisable if it's complex. You can cut your own hair. That's going to be with varying success. You know, there's there's a lot of things. You could change your own oil if you have a clue what's going on the car, but make sure you get that cap on right. There's a lot of things you could do by yourself and you can learn and read, but sometimes it's better just to pay, you know, the pros to do it so you get it done right. Because one thing's for sure, you hire the wrong person, it's way more expensive than than than what you would have saved on the, on the search for that.
20
0,14:29,000 --> 0,14:53,000
And there's and there's and there's 2, there's 2, sides to that coin. If you hire the wrong person, then obviously you've just wasted a ton of time and money. You know? You you all when I say you waste all the time, it's the it's the 6 months of pay you paid this guy that you're gonna end up firing, let's say, if you fire him in 6 months. Yeah. You you not moved your organization.
21
0,14:53,000 --> 0,14:54,000
Lost everybody.
22
0,14:54,000 --> 0,16:17,000
Yeah. And the one of the things that I really try to stress with owner managers, and it's a tiny bit of an uphill battle because they don't really have experience with what I'm talking about, is that a good finance executive is a profit center, not a cost center. So when I deal with executives that have worked in the big corporate world and they said I might work with a guy who's been the president of a $1,000,000,000 company. That person knows the value of a CFO. That person knows that a good CFO is going to bring is going to the return on investment is going to be 5, 6, 10, 20 times what you're paying that CFO. When I work with the owner manager, they've usually never had that experience. So it's a little bit of a of an uphill battle for me to convince them that, yes, I know you're gonna pay this and just for the sake of the arithmetic, let's say you're gonna pay your very first VP Finance a total of $200 a year. That's not gonna be at the end of the year $200 out of your pocket. That $200 could multiply into $1,000,000 in, cost savings, better decisions, better financing, all those things. And you should be looking for at least a 5 x return.
23
0,16:17,000 --> 0,17:42,000
Well, it well, exactly. And and I and I think, I think that's a lot of people look at, you know, at least me, like, I'm a small business. Right? Solopreneur moving to becoming entrepreneur, let's say, right, with teams. And as you do this, I look at like, oh, man. We made money, so we have extra capital. What should we do with it? How much should we retain? What should we do with the remainder? And and those were questions that good financial leadership, you know, should should answer. But let me just pivot for a second, though, because you've been an entrepreneur a very long time, and you you kinda just walked over that like, pretty much your whole career is entrepreneurship. Yeah. And and which, you know, it's just your normal. You've even retired once, and and, yeah, you you a good year off made sense. I think that's a good piece of the pie. What I wanted what I needed was a sabbatical, not a not a retirement. Exactly. And but it but the truth is it ends up being exactly the same because you because in that journey, you've and this is what I was getting to with that is, you know, I'd love for you just to maybe start with what what entrepreneurship has meant to you personally from freedom or however else you'd like to define it. But that takeaway of when you know something's wrong, it didn't matter if you took a sabbatical or retired. You found something you didn't wanna do, and then you came back to what you wanted to. So maybe maybe just start with what entrepreneurship means to you, the mindset you've had, like, you know, things you've helped develop your skills. But just talk take a few moments to talk about that.
24
0,17:42,000 --> 0,20:39,000
Well, I have a lot of I have a I have a I'm just trying I'm I'm I actually have a long story about this, and I'm in my head. I'm already frantically editing. Before I became a headhunter, I was in the military. So I was an officer in the Canadian Navy. I was a navigator. And when you are an officer cadet, when you're in training, they actually teach you about leadership. They don't teach you about management, by the way. They teach you about leadership. And they talk about the 3 different forms of leadership at least in the military. So, you know, the the one you're most familiar with is the sergeant who gets up and says, we're going over this hill to get the enemy. Come on, guys. Let's go. And there's no consultation. It's just, I'm giving you an order. Do it. Now when I say do it right now. So that's that's, level 1 leadership. Level 2 leadership is, say, military commander, but it's, okay, guys. We need to take this ridge sometime in the next couple of days. Okay. All my surgeons, come in and let's talk about this. I think we should do this. Sergeant Halliford, what do you think you should do? Sergeant Osborne, what do you think you should do? Blah blah. And then you have a consultative. Then so, okay, guys. We have a plan. At, o 10 100, we are gonna go over that hill. So that's leadership style number 2. Leadership style number 3 is you run a nuclear physics lab. You are not directing these guys because all these people that work for you are PhDs and post fellow PhDs, and they're literally rocket scientists. They don't need a lot of leadership. They just need an overall direction, some team coordination, and you leave them alone. So, that's called lazy fair leadership. So I had a I had a, a framework for leadership when I got into the search business. And by the way, this search business that I entered was very command and control. And by the way, it still is. It was like treated everybody like they were in a call center. It's that kind of, you know, timed pee breaks, that kinda Amazon, command and control mentality. I hated that. Mhmm. I was much more of either leadership style number 2, if, you know, if it's somebody that isn't that well trained yet, or leadership style number 3 is what I always laissez faire, which is what I always try to to get my team up to. And when I start and then I and when I started my own business, I started applying these principles, and it worked.
25
0,20:39,000 --> 0,20:53,000
On on your on your journey, what's one, like, you know, like, you know, pivotal shaping moment you're proud of, like a success story?
26
0,20:53,000 --> 0,22:56,000
It's actually not I'm gonna give you an answer you're not actually gonna, expect. In the very early days of my business, like, what I just told you is part is mostly true on my leadership style. The other thing I was a so I was a navigator in the navy, and navigation is a very sort of, rigorous discipline. Because if you make a mistake, the ship is on the rocks and people get hurt. So it's not a good idea to put the ship on the rocks. So you you have to be a bit of a perfectionist to be a good navigator. You have to be mister mister or miss, attention to detail, get it right the first time. So you actually kinda have to be a bit of a hard ass because there's no compromise. So, apparently, I was a bit too much of a hard ass. And I was I was very close to my staff, but I did and I thought and they were close to me, but I didn't realize that, there was a Jekyll and Hyde side of my personality that came out every now and again and threw people on the back foot. So we were out. I took a bunch out for cocktails after work. And I don't know how it got to them, but, like, there was an intervention. But With you. That I hosted, I didn't plan. Wait. It was your own intervention that you didn't plan on getting. Right. And my staff my staff were like, hey, Lance. We love you to bits, but you're such a dick sometimes. And what I'm proudest of is I fixed it. Is that I I really took it to heart, and, I managed to excise that part of my personality out of my leadership style. That's excellent. It actually made life a everything just rubbed along a lot better after that.
27
0,22:56,000 --> 0,24:24,000
You know what? You you I think you've also just noted one of your biggest challenges you faced that a lot of people face. And I got it, knows I've had plenty of these moments and, you know, they they become huge fights with your family or your your wife in particular, is when your hardwired personality that you find to be, like, an effective way of communicating, not you, but just one's way of communicating or getting things done or being successful, is shown to you to be incredibly the opposite effect you thought it was happening. Like, I was always trying to be funny, and I was like and and and, like, people pointing out that, like, that doesn't work. And, like, it takes that one friend or that one guy, that one person respects you enough, and then your world just kinda implodes, and you feel like raging because you're like, man, I'm what? Like, I'm no. And and the the the it's the maturity. That's like that is a that's a great success story because that that is the moments I think that define how you'll be resilient as an entrepreneur, as a human, is to know that your world implodes right there and you're gonna have to do something with it or, you know, put your fingers up middle and, you know, flip off the world. I'm gonna be who I am gonna be. And you see people as they get older who have said, I'm exactly like I used to be. I'm not not changed for anybody, and it's very insecure and very, you know, very not productive. And you see the ones who you've met who've softened, lightened. They still have the edge, which is fun, but you know it's not nearly as sharp as it used to be. And it sounds like that's the route you went. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just and it was a combination
28
0,24:24,000 --> 0,24:38,000
of biting my lip a lot from then on and then just kind of sublimating and redirecting any frustrations. And by the way, you know, the people that I used to get a little bit upset with, they didn't change.
29
0,24:38,000 --> 0,25:28,000
My just my reaction to them changed. Right. Yeah. Well, you're just biting your lip. What what I think is found is, you know, as I do a lot of more reading nowadays, things like mindfulness and some things that you're like, how can I just take this experience in the moment? And and all you need is a pause, and you, like you said, redirect my frustration anger into a question Yeah. That points out the thing that you're you're maybe obviously frustrated with, which allows the other person to kind of self soothe themselves and not to get yelled at, but they kind of, oh, yeah, maybe I should have done differently. And that that's a hard technique. So I I think that is a fantastic example of it. I mean, are there any other challenges along along the way you face that would be like I think that's a big one that, you know, it's one in the same story. But is there one that you didn't didn't overcome, or or is is there another example you'd like to share? I've oh,
30
0,25:28,000 --> 0,26:05,000
I've always been kind of a happy warrior. So, I mean, I've had my I mean, I've been at this since 1979. So how many recessions have I been through? 81, 82, 91, 92, 2000 2023, 24. And on. Yeah. You know? And it's kinda you know, my my dad, and I mentioned earlier in the podcast who, you know, came up selling insurance. And I think he sold insurance because, you know, he was an old school guy, left high school at grade 11 to join the navy when he was 16 years old during World War 2.
31
0,26:05,000 --> 0,26:08,000
Wow.
32
0,26:08,000 --> 0,28:06,000
You know, and then he went into the he's an interesting guy. He went to the, Royal Canadian Mounted Police. He did that for a bit. So he was he wasn't really educated to do you know, he he kinda had to find a job because he married my mom and he'd had a couple of kids and more on the way, and he's like, okay. Well, I'll sell insurance. Everyone needs insurance, I believe. I think he hated selling insurance. Oh, boy. I think he hated selling, but it was kinda like I got got a grade 11 education. But he was a he had ambition, and he was a well spoken guy. And he and he did very, very well, but he had a saying He actually had it engraved and put in a high traffic area in the house, which is all things come who he who waits as long as he who waits works like hell while he waits. And so our I grew up with a philosophy of just, you know, keep your head down. Don't give up. Just pull through it. I mean, you gotta do you gotta make intelligent, decisions along the way. Right. But I think this is this is a absolute absolute must for entrepreneurs is you gotta be able just to, like, tough it out tough it out. You know And not lose your mind when things are good, and not lose your heart when things are bad. Agreed. You know, I was I was ironically for an entrepreneur, I always I always compare myself to the guy with the lunch bucket who went to work at Ford, you know, checked in, put on lug nuts for 8 hours, went home, had a beer. And that was kinda me in a very sort of entrepreneurial you know, being a being a headhunter is a little bit like being a broker. There's a lot, you know, if you're on the phone, blah blah blah. But my philosophy was come in, get her done, do everything you're supposed to do, go home. And that way you don't you don't lose a lot of sleep.
33
0,28:06,000 --> 0,28:41,000
The the the, the notion of working hard, like, you know, you get work hard and you'll get, like, you know, wealthy. That's not true because there'd be, you know, millions of day workers that would be millionaires if that was the case because those guys work super hard. There's a blend of intelligence and working smart, but working efficiently when you're doing those two things together that makes you successful beyond where your current capabilities are and then never letting go of the gas of smarter, smarter, smarter. How do I evolve? Yeah. I agree. I agree that. Same thing forever. You you're just gonna work hard and work yourself to death as opposed to work yourself into success.
34
0,28:41,000 --> 0,28:44,000
Yeah. All this effort is always rewarded. Yeah. I agree.
35
0,28:44,000 --> 0,28:52,000
The, you mentioned this. So what what keeps you at night nowadays?
36
0,28:52,000 --> 0,30:31,000
Okay. What what what consistently keeps me up at night is my clients all think that I manufacture candidates somewhere in the back of my office, That they tell me the specs of what they're looking for. I have a ginormous mold back there. I pour in the goop. I heat it for 24 hours and out comes the exact same person that they're looking that they've asked me for. Right. And it happened, like, 2 days after our initial intake meeting. Then that that's not how it happens. There's a big process, and, it's a longest process. And but everybody, you know, when they decide that they wanna hire a CFO, they always want them yesterday. Right. They're 9 weeks ahead of you. Yeah. Right. And I'm kinda so and so I will show them, and you almost you almost you almost always end up giving your clients what they need, not necessarily what they ask for. Right. If that makes sense. No. You you sell them what they want. You give them what they need. Like, that's Yeah. That's okay. Okay. I like that. That's exactly right. But in in, in that process, you know, you get a lot of heat from the client who's kinda like, how come this hasn't happened yet? How come this isn't, you know, exactly what I'm looking for? Then you kind of talk them down, and you manage their expectation. But that's what you know, upset clients, I think, make every entrepreneur I shouldn't say upset because my clients don't get upset. I like to think my clients all love me, but they do get impatient. And You know? Fancy clients make you kinda nervous.
37
0,30:31,000 --> 0,32:08,000
You know, from a either in you know, we've known each other off camera, but, I find that in our own services that we provide, right, I I'm very clear that, like, it's gonna evolve. We're gonna have to fill it out. Like, you know, patience, feedback cycles are important. We'll have clients that I'll, like, talk to 2 months prior and explain all these things, being clarity and patient. We'll get into a week into it, and they're ready to quit because they're like, I don't like it. I'm like, we just started. I'm like and it's it blows me away when this happens, and I'm like I'm like, we literally just start we we just onboarded 7 days ago. Like, we haven't even had our first follow-up. And I'm like, what are you expecting here? Like, there like, there's not magic behind things we do in life. That's exactly right. It's not magic. There's a but but there's well, when we first got together, right, we talked about process. I'm a great believer in process. You you just need it. And the point being is from a thing that keeps you at night, I have a very similar thing where, like, you you know, I'm I feel this specifically in the first, like, 30 days of a relationship in a business. Right? This urgency to communicate, over communicate, and but but at the same time, it's stressful. It's like it's like, man, like, you just give time. Like like like, you wouldn't put your investment in Apple and be like, why isn't it doubled in in in a week? Right? Like, you might like, hey. The stock's gonna grow over time. It's a solid pick. It's gonna have ups and downs too. But, you know, I just that's that's a very good one. And I think the takeaway I always try to find these little knuck ins for the entrepreneur is you're gonna have to know how to handle tough, frustrated clients who who likely are on other pressures because they were late to come to you. So so are they Exactly. And I Yeah. And and honesty is absolutely the best policy.
38
0,32:08,000 --> 0,33:00,000
I'm a great believer in show your work. Tell them exactly what's going on. Don't sugar don't sugarcoat it. You know, I used when I used to train executive recruiters that were dealing with clients, the the hardest thing that I had to teach them was how to speak truth to power, How to talk to the clients. Like, clients sometimes they'll ask you for unicorns. You know, they'll just give you an unrealistic, candidate profile that you're supposed to find for them. I'm just like, you gotta say this if you go down that path with them, you're both gonna be disappointed, and the relationship is gonna be marred. Tell them upfront what the problem is, and then bring them market data that supports, what you're saying and get them on side. But, you know, you gotta be brutally honest with clients.
39
0,33:00,000 --> 0,34:10,000
You know what? The I've I've, I could not support that statement more than that. So I've I've had plenty of customers have come to us 9 months after telling me the other way they're gonna go is better, and they come afterwards. They're like, yeah. Exactly what you said happened. I'm like, hey. All good. And then, you know, you get into it, and you're like, you know, brutally honest, like, you you not have to rebuild. Like, you're gonna have, you know, like, and you and the problem and when that problem is the thing that happens is you oftentimes don't sell the deals as fast as you want. Yeah. But if they've ever gone out to market and found those who just blow smoke up their ass and not do the things they need and they don't get what they want, they're gonna come back. They're like, that guy at least shot me straight, knew it from day 1, and that you're gonna come back in. And and then now the relationships, it's immediately better, and they know where they stand with you at least. So I could the transparency and honesty piece, own when you screw up, own when you relate. This is where your gentleness comes in. Let them know sometimes that they're on the hook for stuff. Yeah. Hey. You're for you, you know, like, the role you're describing is a unicorn. If you can get 60% of that, you'd have a really good candidate So cut out the 30% fluff because, like, that's no one's getting that. And the other thing that I point out, I mean,
40
0,34:10,000 --> 0,34:36,000
is how their requests are counterproductive. Like, I'll often say, okay, mister client. Sure. This is exactly what I'm gonna look for. And by the way, are you gonna be happy with us still talking 9 months from now? 9 months from now? Oh my god. I need a guy, like, in 3 months. Right. Well, then let's take the horn off the unicorn, and let's see if we can find you a horse.
41
0,34:36,000 --> 0,34:37,000
Right.
42
0,34:37,000 --> 0,35:03,000
Because that, I can find you probably in the next couple months. But you put the horn back on, then it's a unicorn again, and they're pretty scarce, and you're not paying it up anyway. We're gonna do that. You're not paying it up to get the unicorn. That's usually the answer. Yeah. That unicorn runs the company already. Yeah. So, you know, I'm just sort of saying, sure. I'll do it. You know? If if they won't listen to reason, I'll say, okay. Sure. But this is the consequence of what you are asking for.
43
0,35:03,000 --> 0,35:27,000
Right. Yep. And that's dangerous too because you're like, you know, well, as long as you've been paid already, I think you're probably fine. But if you haven't paid your fee, they make some go shop. Can somebody say can somebody find a yes to me? Can we find that? And that, like, do when do you when do you share that type of transparency, when you establish the relation far enough and they've hired you, or do you do it prior to being hired? Prior. So you really do lay it out ahead of time. Yeah. Because I because if I don't
44
0,35:27,000 --> 0,35:46,000
if I don't, the search will take way too long. Oh, then they'll be pissed. I don't wanna look for a unicorn for 9 months when I can spend 3 months looking for a horse for the same And all they need and all they need is a horse. And all they need was a donkey. Nobody nobody needs a unicorn. This isn't Disney. Nobody needs a unicorn. No. People all need horses.
45
0,35:46,000 --> 0,36:08,000
So well, listen. As we kinda get in this part of this show, I I really should ask you for, like, you know, if you were the, you know, crystal ball, someone could ask you one thing as a tip. What's the one tip you give entrepreneurs?
46
0,36:08,000 --> 0,37:10,000
Seek okay. It's a little bit like being the president of the United States, let's say, or being the being the head of of any state. Get all get all the opposing views. Get all the don't just not don't just get the stuff you wanna hear. Get input on stuff maybe you don't wanna hear. Get all get a 360, all the information you can, but make up your own mind. Don't let somebody else make up your mind. Get the information, process it, make up your own mind. But get the information. That was my biggest that was my biggest fault as an entrepreneur. I didn't ask for advice. So in my second career, I get to reflect on all the mistakes I made in my first career because I'm that much older than that much wiser. And gosh darn it. I really wish I had asked people that knew more than me about what I should be thinking about. Well and you you you took a couple years,
47
0,37:10,000 --> 0,37:43,000
and you probably had some self discovery of, like, if I ever did this again, that's the thing that creeps in your head. Right? If I ever did this again, what what would I do differently? And you're like, I'm definitely gonna go ask some people some stuff before I get going on this one because because you're like, you know what I mean? So I think I think your advice is is solid. And so fast forward a year. You're you're a year from now. You look back. What did you accomplish, and what are you most proud of? This year? In 2020? 12 months. Like, you're gonna look you're looking back now. Oh, I'm glad you're not. What did you accomplish, and what what are you proud of?
48
0,37:43,000 --> 0,39:15,000
Okay. So my answer is gonna sound a little self satisfied. I I don't actually I don't actually have, like, I'm proud of this peak. I'm proud of the steady. I'm proud of our consistent. We're by the we live in I live in a world where results are not consistent. You know, in the you ask anybody who's dealt with a recruiter either from from from somebody from an executive like a Korn Ferry or somebody from, you know, Robert Half, they'll tell you it's the good, bad, and the ugly. It's gypsies, tramps, and thieves. There's this, like it's just that it's so inconsistent. The the the kind of service people get from search firms. I'm very proud of consistently high service. So I don't really have, like, a oh my gosh. Here's one thing I can point at. I nailed that search. Oh, by the way, I just I just, I just filled a a CFO search, 3 hours north of Edmonton, if you know where that is, and that's really far north. I'm proud of that because that's actually a that you know, in a in a town of about 2 or 3000 people, I managed to find somebody for them. So, I mean, there are little searches like that where you're kinda like, oh, I placed somebody up on the Yukon. But, you know, what I'm proud of is that all our clients got a really good consistent level of of of service.
49
0,39:15,000 --> 0,39:49,000
I I mean, that's a great thing to be proud of. I think if you can do that, you've nailed the processes and routines and methodology in place so to deliver it. Yeah. Two questions left. Last one's gonna be how to get ahold of oh, how to how to get ahold of you. If there's one question I should've asked you but didn't, what what would it be? Oh, okay. Which one are we gonna answer first? How to get ahold of me or what I No. We'll do that one last because we gotta tease them along the way here. No. If there's a question I should have asked you along the way today, what what would it have been?
50
0,39:49,000 --> 0,40:01,000
Alright. You should have said hold on. What's the what's the biggest mistake owner managers make when they go to hire a CFO?
51
0,40:01,000 --> 0,40:04,000
Oh, it's a good question. I'm glad I danced asked it.
52
0,40:04,000 --> 0,40:56,000
Yeah. It's very self serving on my part. But, the biggest mistake they make is they fish from too small a pond. So they're they decide they're gonna have a CFO, so they phone their pal, Thomas Helfrich. They talk to their banker. They talk to their lawyer. They talk to the guy at the golf club. They talk to the neighbor. They find somebody who's a CPA. They find somebody else who's a CPA. So they're look they're looking at a pool of, like, 10 people, and they hire one of them. And that's almost always gonna be a hire that ranges from bad to meh. Whereas if they had fish from a pool of 700 candidates, they can hire a really good guy. So that's the biggest mistake that owner managers make when they go to hire a CFO.
53
0,40:56,000 --> 0,41:30,000
I mean And to answer your last sorry. Did you have a follow-up question? I wanna expand on that. So I think the re the the reasons I hear that are in my mind is they don't know what they need. They don't want to they don't see the investment of hiring somebody to go find it for them because they don't understand the value, which we understand why do you need the position at all. And so so there's those questions of why are you even hiring if you don't see the value of finding the right person? It could be anywhere. And then and then lastly, it's also just time, level of effort, which would further say maybe you should hire someone to go do it to do it right. So effort. And it's kind of funny. I actually wrote an article about this.
54
0,41:30,000 --> 0,42:03,000
You know, you can sell your own house. Who sells their own house? Everybody uses a real estate agent. And with the price of houses these days, the commission you're paying you know, you sell your $2,000,000 house, you know, that's a $100,000 commission, and that's, like, for, like, a regular person, not a business. But there's so many people that insist you know, they use a real estate agent to sell their house or to buy a house, but they'll insist on doing it themselves when they're hiring a CFO. Makes me kinda crazy, but I'm in the business.
55
0,42:03,000 --> 0,43:50,000
I mean, I will say this. We sold our last house during the boom because, like, it completely done. And we signed literally 2 pieces of paperwork. That was it. It was listed with the title agency to say, here's your our title company, and then we sold it. And saving 6% on that, you know, allowed us to go buy overpay for you know, during the market. So we oversold on one side, made 6% on the on the flip to go get another home, and that made it easier to go for the next house way better. So Not not not the quibble, not the quibble, Thomas, but, you know, you just gave the counterargument to what I just said. Right? I know. I know. I'm just saying But that being said, I'll tell you why. Because I have experience in in the real estate world a little bit to know that it's not that complicated. I would always use an agent, though, to buy a house. And the reason is because There we go. Because I don't wanna have to go do all the paperwork and stuff, and it doesn't actually cost me anything, and it's not gonna lower the price on the other end. The people would sell it to me for 6% less for us working together or even 5 so they're making an extra one. I negotiate that deal, but they don't. So I might as well just make it expensive for them because it doesn't actually come out of my pocket. Well, I don't know if that supports my argument either. But, anyway, my point is everybody should see me when they're looking for a CFO. Gosh darn it. There's no there's no doubt, by the way, if I'm gonna go hire the right person at the critical strategic position, I'm not finding it myself. It is not my wheelhouse. If you have unless you're from that world, you should hire somebody to help. If you or and if you can't afford the fee, you should ask what what's the real value of the position you're hiring for? Are you hiring someone for job tasks or strategic investment? And if it's a strategic investment, I would make the investment to find the right person. If it's just a tasks, go get the CPA guy then because and not there's any wrong CPAs, but it's not a strategic placement. It's something to go take a workload off of yours, then fractionalize it. Like, like,
56
0,43:50,000 --> 0,44:11,000
do it some other way. I wouldn't hire someone to go do that type of role, but a strategic one? Yeah. You should. Hell yeah. Yeah. No no doubt about that. One more point while I'm thinking about it. The your this podcast is mainly seen in the states. Right? It's everywhere. Nope. It's global. Okay. But I want your viewers to know even though we're based in Canada,
57
0,44:11,000 --> 0,44:18,000
we do work in the States. Yeah. Well, actually so how how who should get a hold of you and how do they do that? If you are an owner manager
58
0,44:18,000 --> 0,44:50,000
or somebody who runs a medium sized company and you're thinking maybe you're looking for a director of finance, a VP finance, a chief financial officer, you can DM me on LinkedIn. You can find me at lance@osbornfinancialsearch.com. You can I'm old school, so I'm happy for you to call me direct at 416-567-7782. That's my cell number. I will answer it. If I miss you, I will call you right back.
59
0,44:50,000 --> 0:44:52,000
So that's how you get a hold of me. That's great. Thank you. Thanks for coming on today, Lance. I appreciate it. Thomas, that was way funner than I thought it was gonna be. Thank you very much. Listen. I aim to please here. It's good. And if you guys have made it to this point in the show, thank you for listening. If this was your first time here, I do hope you come back. Guys, do the follows on YouTube at NeverBeen Promoted. It's really important if you like the podcast, even just a little bit. Well, still give it a 5 star on Apple and Spotify and Amazon. It really means a lot to the show and the guests. Until we meet again, get out there and go unleash your entrepreneur. You know, help somebody, get help, get some advice, but that's how you're gonna get better at entrepreneurship. And that's our mission is to help you get better at it. Thanks for listening. And until next time, of the Never Been Promoted podcast, go unleash your entrepreneur. Thanks for listening.