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Welcome back to another episode of Never Been Promoted. We're helping you unleash your entrepreneur. You know, my mission is to help 1000000 entrepreneurs get better entrepreneurship, and we do that through the stories of other entrepreneurs. It's called micro mentoring. So learn one thing from today's episode from a pretty special guest. We'll talk about it. We're gonna have a good con we're gonna have a vibrant conversation. I can feel it. But if this is your first time here, thank you for stopping by. You know, just hang out. Check out the episode. And if you like it, come back. Because if you've been here before, I think, you know, you're seeing the value of it and in the lessons that you're learning from the different entrepreneurs. So if you have been here before, thanks for coming back as well. This is super important for the channel and the community and the guests. Go to Apple, Spotify, or Amazon and do a 5 star rating. It really helps bring more attention to their episodes. And if you can go to youtube.com and subscribe at Never Been Promoted, we always put out some kind of fun material there. It's super important, and I really appreciate it. But enough of the shameless promotion. I always feel a little icky doing what you gotta do apparently. Let's meet our guest, Dr.Troy Hall. He's a PhD from iCud. He's gonna correct me on that. And, best selling author, on talent retention. He's an international speaker, and he's fluent in no. I'm kidding. And he's a founder of Cohesion Culture. So let's meet Dr. Troy. Dr. Troy, how are you?
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Hey. I am doing great. How are you, Thomas? I'm delicious. Thank you for asking. Super.
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That's my favorite line of the a South Park movie. I'm super
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thanks for asking. Thanks for asking. That's right. I usually sometimes say super duper, or sometimes I also say when people ask me, I say, oh, if I were any better, I'd be you. Oh, that's a good one. I mean, if I was any better, I would I would be you. Yeah. I I like that. I'm gonna steal that and claim it as my own. Oh, that's fine. Yeah. I've had people steal a lot of stuff from me, but it's okay.
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Let's start with a little icebreaker. Only because I went on the way home from the gym. I was rocking this for 7 minutes. So what is your favorite Queen song and why?
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Oh, my favorite Queen song. Oh, let me think about that. Well, let's see. Since you well, first of all, you've assumed that I like Queen. Right? If you do not, we're hanging up right now. It's over. So if you don't like Queen Oh, click. No. I really actually, what I I really love is how Adam Adam Lambert has come in and revitalized the what they're able to do because, I saw the documentary on Freddie Mercury and that that whole, you know, concept and things that happened. So I don't know. I guess I'm probably gonna pick the the one that most people know as Bohemian Rhapsody, And the reason that I like it is because I feel like it's so many different characters all being played by the same person. And that's sort of me. Like, I have these multiple personalities. Not terrible. Not you know, I'm not talking like Sybil where I've got 16 personalities and they're they're weird and all of that, but I mean I just have different approaches sometimes to the way I feel about things, so I think that the Bohemian Rhapsody sort of is a nice way to get an eclectic group of personalities together without them being weird, but still being the personalities that people could embrace.
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I agree. And that's actually one of the things I like about it as well is, it's like an adventure. And that was the song. I mean, I alluded to it because it's only, like, 7 minute song they have like that. But but the funny part is I get I've gotten my little kids into it. And so sometimes on the way home from, like, with jiu jitsu or something, I'll be like, we'll just I'll start start off acapella. It's brutal. But then the kids will all fill in and we'll try to do the song. And it's just funny. Luckily luckily, a couple of my kids can sing. Actually, all 3. Okay. Alright. Enough of that. You wanna give your background a little bit, your origin story, and what you're currently working towards?
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Well, I think the first thing I like to do is start with, something that you wouldn't know about me, you know, on my resume, and that is I'm a simple man of faith. Was fortunate enough to marry my high school sweetheart in 1977, and we have 2 children and 6 grandchildren. And March of this year, we celebrated 50 years of the 1st day we met. Wow. It's a long time. I'm I'm sure I've never had a fight or anything, so that's a No. Actually, we say that usually. We say we've been married for 47 years, and we've never had a fight. So that's sort of the way that goes. And when you say it in a little, you know, upward register, it kinda makes people more think it's more believable. So yeah. So we can kinda say that. Yeah. Yeah. So that'll work. No. I didn't eat those chocolate chips. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Okay, honey. I'm listening to everything you say. Okay. My diet perfectly. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I'm wrong. It's the way life goes, but it it's actually been really, it's a good good solid relationship. She has been so supportive of me through my entire career. I was born and raised in a small town in West Virginia. It was like an abandoned coal mining town, poor economic conditions, limited education, no medical facility or major employer within 45 miles of this of the town, so it was you know very very depressed economic times. That's kind of where I was born and raised, but I had great influences for my mom, which is a subject of one of the books that I wrote that was one of the bestsellers. It was was A Mother's Leadership Lessons That Never Grow Old, and it was a way for people to find out a little bit more about me and my backstory, so it'll kind of give anyone who is listening or watching this, an opportunity to say, Yeah, if you want to know a little bit more about this guide, that's what you do. And from there, my mom taught me that I could be anything I wanted to be, just be the best at it. She said, I don't care if you wanna sweep floors. Go ahead and sweep floors, but you better be really good because one of these days I'm coming to your company and I'm checking the corners because anyone can sweep in the middle of the floor, but you better take care of the corners. So that's just a small example of the leadership lessons that she provided to me, and then I just had, opportunities. I chose to move away from that small town, went to a larger city, got more involved, more understanding of the corporate world, but brought a lot of that home town with me and those lessons that my mom taught me about leadership, and they have really paid off because what I have found is that more of my success in what I have done has come through the relationships I have built and less through what I know.
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Yeah. Well, those are interactive, though, Ty, because the people you know or the people you interact with your relationships. Right? Some a lot of it's based on how you act and what you know and what you say. And so so there's not the knowledge transfer and how you interact and what you've learned about interacting with people. It it it all it's not so cut and dry like that. It's not Yeah. It's not a chord change since we're going back to music. I'm not sure why I'm on music today. So anybody's listening going, what are you talking about? I don't know. I think I mispronounced something, though, in your title. What what is IQ'd? I'm ignorant. Can you help me out with that one a little bit? I've never seen that. I sure can. So it stands for International Credit Union Development or
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Development Educator. So it's the ICUDE program. So that's what it is. Sometimes we say How do you use that? We say, yeah. Well, credit unions are not for profit where banks are for profit. We provide financial services for the to help improve the financial conditions of people's lives. And so most of my career was in the credit union industry in the credit union area, and then when I was able to transition from my c suite, actually started to build an organization, then of course I branched out and I have been able to help organizations around the globe in a variety of different industries, not just in financial services, But I have a very soft spot spot for my time and work with credit unions, and I still have a number of them as clients. And so it's really a it's been a good good experience for me. And oftentimes people ask us, like, did the credit union find you, or did you find the credit union? And I think that it was a, sort of a nice mixture of both. I always have had this desire to help others. It's one of the things. It's why it, I think the further education for me was really impactful and important, so part of my studies as my PhD is in global leadership and entrepreneurship. My dissertation was in group dynamics with an emphasis on cohesion, and so one of the things I learned through there would be leadership and it and it's transformational leadership, and transformational leadership is built from the concept of how you focus on on others first and then self. So it's not a martyrism. It's just a way of of serving others. Right. More altruistic.
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Yeah. So more altruistic. Yeah. It's what it is. So that's that's how that works. So Yeah. Boy, I'll tell you what. I blew that one yesterday. Let me tell you. I I was just kinda having a one of those days, and I I just became you know, my wife was in the office. And, you know, we've had this discussion before, but I just just basically I'm just not making dinner. And I just went out and worked out because I was like, I just I would just and I didn't communicate it. I was very I caused a discussion of elevated volume. But she's right. Alright. So, yes, I should have been like, hey, honey. I just don't feel it today. That would have been enough. It would have been angry. Is it supposed to I'm running through the neighborhood, and she rocks in going, do you mind moving into Well, commune it's so interesting that you say that because communication
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generally is where the greatest breakdown is, in organ especially in organizations. There's only 2 sort of dysfunctions in organizations. One of them is task. The task doesn't really care. It's, you know, it's just a functional way of doing things. It's the second dysfunction is the largest and that's people, and it typically breaks down because there is not a good communication that's built up. There's not enough trust built up. There's not enough, people thinking about taking care of someone else. And so I think that's what happens. We just get sidetracked as as people and we get off course, just like you mentioned, for your situation, but you would demonstrate great emotional intelligence if you were self aware of that and then you self corrected that for the next time, and then she wouldn't have to tell you and you wouldn't have to have an argument. You'd be able to to just communicate what's going on for you and then move on.
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Yep. All she'll have to do is speak my love language, like, in in a in a firm after me. Yeah. You know? Hey. I know you had a you know, thanks for making dinner today or something like that. Not thanks. Thanks is the wrong word. I because that's the wrong kind of way. You're really good at making potatoes. Something that's more about the strength. You know, we're not gonna go down this path because we could spend hours about that. And I don't need therapy. I'm gonna do that tomorrow afternoon. Okay. Good. Therapy is good for tomorrow. It's good. Do you, do you remember kind of the calling, the moment when you knew you wanted to be on your own, do your own thing?
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Yeah. I think, again, I think it came from, really the bedside time that I spent with my mom, so when I was 12 years old, my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer, and I've already given you a little bit of a background story, and so you can imagine when you're in a community of maybe 250 people at most and, you and you're 50 some years ago, you hear the story that your mom has cancer, you think she's going to die. And so part of my responsibility was after her operation was to take care of her. Dad had to work, so she had the operation at the end of a school year so that the entire summer I'd be able to take care of her without missing school. So that summer I took care of mom and helped nurture her, from that operation. Got up in the morning, helped my dad get to work, made sure his lunch was packed. He and mom always had a conversation at the at the table, and I always remember, like, waking up sometimes and hearing the 2 of them, like, having little rumbling sounds knowing that the 2 of them were talking, couldn't make out all the words, but I could hear them talking. I knew how important that time with him, with mom was, and he wasn't willing to have it so I kind of filled in for it. So I would sit get up and I would sit up with him and talk with him and make his breakfast and make his, lunch so that he could go out and do what he needed to do. And so I think it was it's really it stems from that. Like, did I have a real clear epiphany or an moment? No. But I think that's the beginning of me understanding what my role in life could be like is in helping others and and going forward. And I knew that I had to break away from the small town or I was just going to potentially be kind of stuck there. And mom had always encouraged me to to go out and to do more. Dad was a little less, aggressive in some of that, but mom was like, go see the world. Go go if you have an travel. Go do this. Go do that. And so little opportunities, little things came up. I had great mentors, people who wanted to pour into me and helped me along. So I think that's what really, really, really, really helped me. I me along. So I think that's what really, really did it. Like, I had no idea that I would ever have a PhD, that people would call me Dr. Troy. I mean, I never ever thought that was going to be something that I would do. It happened much later in life, but it was natural progression of my growth and development. Because as I've continued to feel like I was going to help people, I I just didn't wanna help them because I had some crazy idea that I got when I was on the couch watching television or streaming a video. I wanted the idea to come from something that was grounded source, so I knew education was going to really support that. And I didn't need to do it because I was in in a career. I was in a great spot. I've been in c suite for 30 years, so it wasn't a matter of, oh, I needed it to get to the next level in my organization. I just know I needed to do it for all the people that I might interact with and try to help.
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Yeah. It's, and, you know, is I I often talk about the moment in the calling. It's usually not the moment that you actually be take the step to be by yourself or being an entrepreneur. It's usually years before. And I know mine came, you know, like summer after school, you're trained up, you're about to go start the consulting firm. You've done 3 months of training. Everyone's partying. You're on the beach. And I'm kind of having like a low depressed moment. And one of my friends at the time came back, goes, What's wrong? And I'm like, Is this it? This is what we're going to be doing, sitting in cubes and coding. Like, I mean, this is dumb. And so he's like, What else do you expect in life? And like, like, what else do you like? Why do you or something like, why do you expect to be more? I'm thinking, I expect to be a hell of a lot more than that. Like and so anyway. And so you squash it. Then 20 years later, Life Kitsch and it pops up. So and I always ask that moment because if you can draw upon, which the next part I talked to you about is, you know, there's and this has to be mindset and how you've developed your skills. But the reason you kinda move on your own becomes a a sense of purpose, and so your calling and your purpose are tied. Some people have the calling, but no purpose, and they can't leave the money. They can't leave the the there's it's not enough to get over the trigger point, but you already have it as part of your calling. And I'm not into psychology, but I have to guess you need kind of both. And that's that's my I'm standing by my words on that one. You need a calling to do something that doesn't chase someone else's dream, and you need a purpose. You so I'm gonna I already hear the purpose. I want you maybe to talk about how your mindset and the skills you you maybe you knew you needed to develop or you found that you need to develop to be able to go become exactly what you were, you know, 12 years old saying that where that seed got planted?
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Well, thanks for for asking for that. And so I talk about it in the first book that I wrote, which was Cohesion Culture, Proven Principles to Retain Your Top Talent, which was my first bestseller. And on page 20 of the book, I list 7 attributes of an effective leader. And these are the things that I knew I needed to really practice and demonstrate, and then whatever education I could get around them would be awesome. The first one is being teachable, and that is what really fuels my mindset and what I really speak to leaders about when I consult with them on talent retention within their organizations, leadership development, their leadership coaching programs, is to really focus on being teachable, that you have to have that open mind where you're going to accept new information from other people, that you need to ask other people for information. And especially as we've seen today in the world, how much more value we can get when we accept the cultural, similarities, differences, and norms of other people to create understanding, that is really helpful because it then adds to the things that you, you know, wanna do. So for instance, some of my international travels, though, when I was in Japan, one of the things that I learned was the difference between Shinto principles and a more defined religion, Hindu religion. And so I was able to understand that Shinto principles, sometimes people could confuse to be an actual religion when they're just simply practices that that you have. And so that was a real so that was like, oh, well, I can be really teachable about that. Like, oh, I learned that. That's something different. I could have just, you know, been closed off to it and have not done that. And, when I was in Prague, I had a chance to talk with the leaders of Duke Manufacturing, and one of the things I asked them very specifically is, well, tell me what energizes your employees. You get great employee surveys. Tell me what your employees really like. What are you doing? And they provided me with some information that was really helpful and I've been able to incorporate that into, the programs. And then I'll I'll leave this section of the commentary talking about my really favorite colleague, Ben Jamintoy. And, by the way, when you got a name like Ben Jammin, then you know that something is really is really gonna happen, and Ben has taught me a lot about how to integrate, interactive hands on experiences into the learning that we offer through the Cohesion culture program, which makes what we do so different than anyone else, and I am so grateful for that connection that the 2 of us have as that strategic alliance colleagues, to really build from the program. So what we have built is an entire program around, no trust falls, no rope courses, no death by PowerPoint, and don't fear the camo.
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I love it. I love that. By the way, did you enjoy the, Provsky, Orloy and Praha? That's the astronomical clock. Oh, yes. So It's right across some Karlovy most, which is Charles Bridge.
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That's like explaining the ICUDE
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for me. Thank you for clarifying that. I see what I got. My wife my wife is Slovak, which isn't Czech, but the language is enough. We've been there a few times. So Yes. Anyway It was that easy. Yeah. The clock is fascinating. It's it's it's it's amazing. The the city itself, just the old star remesto with the old town is kinda anyway, we're seeing if you guys are picking where you'd like to go. By the way, that's not Eastern Europe. It's Central Europe. It is like if you look at it, it's like basically the Missouri of Europe. Anyway, we're gonna come off of that and move on. I love what you guys are creating. So so come back to what you're saying with, you know, don't feel it's a different way of doing leadership. You know, in in as I read more, you know, I'm enjoying reading more actually physical books, though. I love my Kindle. Like, some of the book kind of just does something to you. It's weird. And also, as I interview authors, it's great because I get signed copies of stuff. So it's like it's kind of fun. It's like, oh, it's kinda neat. I I know this guy. But, the the fun part, that I'm reading right now is the science of mindfulness. And you touched on some of the key things of that, you know, about those lectures that I'm reading about with how you just approach your mindset and think about things differently and being in the moments and experience. Maybe along your journey, were you able to recognize in the moment or maybe it's reflective, I guess, but, like, a pivotal success moment for you. Like, just this and did you realize it was happening, or was it more like, oh my gosh. That was so pivotal?
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Wow. Most of most of what's happened for me has been, like, really organic, so it's not been like this magnanimous sort of moment, like I said before, where, you know, you have all the trumpet sounding and it's the, you know, I I can't say that I can relate back to, any one thing, but I have a nice string of things that have really worked, and those those those moments have continued to allow me because I will I will reinvent myself. I wanna make sure that I am, as contemporary as I can possibly be, and, but so I don't know that I have a for sure moment that I would look back on and say, oh, it was at that moment that I was on stage or it was that moment that I did that. I I think, if anything, what I would say about presentations, I would say this. I had an opportunity when I was about 17 years old, and I did a, I was involved in the 4 h group, which stands for, Head, Hands, Heart, and Health, and it's a it's usually an agricultural program, but it also has other things than just showing livestock and raising livestock and doing it. It has, you know, leadership things, and so I had an opportunity to do speeches during that, and I chose to do, and I remember this, it was money to burn, and so I did a little presentation on money to burn, and I was able to be the state champion eventually through that program, and so it was like that was a moment when I think I felt that I knew that I could be in front of people communicating information in a way that would be meaningful because the whole presentation was teaching them on how not to burn money, like to create budgets and to be able to do it, and then here I am working for all these years in financial services and helping to improve the financial conditions of people's lives. So maybe I'll just so I I I think now that you've made me think about it, that probably would be the the
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story. Weird, though, when you think about Pivotal moments, I'm not even sure I could answer it. So I'm not going to try because there's it depends on what, you know, seasonal life I've been in. A lot of my biggest successes, me personally, were it be when I realized I was on the wrong path. It's not a win. It's it's the it's like, oh, wow. I'm getting you know, I'm the rat getting shocked. Didn't realize I'm getting shocked. Like like, duh. Like, why am I on this path? I'm gonna back it up and go to find food in another maze path. So, anyway,
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on that And I do wanna say, though, that I really love the symbolism of the cut tie because basically in my mind it's like I'm cutting ties with those things that may be holding me back and what I'm now doing is that I'm I'm gonna leave the rest that I want to be a part of me. I've cut off the piece that I don't want. This is the piece that I want. And so I wasn't so successful in cutting off the tie. As a matter of fact, I cut it off so much that I just don't wear it anymore.
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So that would be my You know, and I forgot to do that in our intro. Like, that like, you know, I'm human. Right? But,
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the the the is it a is it a symbolism or a metaphor? Now now I'm, you know It's a it's a simile if you use the word like. It's a metaphor if you Okay. I'm gonna go with this. So this is what it is. Right? You were too passive when you said that. You said it's
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things that might hold you back. No. There are things that do hold you back, and then you need to cut the tide out, anchors in the life. Right? And and a lot of times, it has been a wife for you, which is good. For some people, it's a spouse. Some people, it's a brother. Some people, it's friends. And and and, like, you really do, in my mindset, have to cut it. And you gotta recognize there's tons of stuff, tons of things, people in particular, that are just really holding people back from being successful because they're worried about what they'll think or what they'll say or they'll feel like they're not key they're gonna feel jealous of you. Like, get cut if you wanna do it, cut all that out and get going. So yeah. Absolutely. Because I will because I will tell you that being liked as a leader is overrated.
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You need to be effective as a leader. Okay. And if being liked is a part of it, then that's okay, but you have a responsibility, and so and part of that responsibility is not to be a jerk either. Right? So we're not talking about that, but I'm saying it's not like I wanna do things or say things so that people will like me. I want people to do things that will help them be effective in what they're doing. That's what I do as an entrepreneur than helping other, other organizations. I I help them, you know, figure things out and and move things forward. But if they like me, then that's really great. That's the icing on the cake. I really like that. But but I can't hold back on my recommendations just because I want them to like me. Now that doesn't mean I roll them over like I'm a bull in a China closet, and I just sort of spit out a bunch of stuff and make myself look so great. No. I try to provide them in a way that people can accept them and understand them. So when you mentioned the passive portion of that conversation before about these are things that you might want to cut off, it's because I wanna give you credit for you to be able to say, no. These are the things I definitely wanted to get rid of. It's it's more, setting you up so that you can have that strength in doing it, that my strength will come in the way that I support you, not in the way that I have to speak so assertively.
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No. A 100%. I agreed. And these are like, if you're learning anything from this, take this to heart because and there's different variants. Take it hard because there's different different levels of success you'll find relative to where you're coming from. But the more things you can free yourself, you know, the better. And and from a leadership standpoint, I think a good analogy maybe or is, you know, is that if you're in a if you're a leader of a, let's say, a military group and you're doing something and you're taking fire and everyone likes you because you're like, Hey, listen, we're just going to sit here. We're going to be safe. We're going to. And you don't really lead and everyone dies. Oh, I'm glad they liked you. But if you get everybody out and some people don't like that you're yelling at them maybe a little bit, you're pushing them a little harder than they want. You're you're getting them through, getting them dirty. Some people are taking around. You might lose somebody, but you you most of you get through and survive. They're gonna like you a hell of a lot for doing that and for keeping them alive and showing leadership. And that's what it's like. You have to be able to to make the hard decisions and get shot get shot at and yelled at yourself. So anyway, pedestal. I'm off of it again. Let me get off that, please. Thank you for your Great. Is there a single challenge in your kind of career or even life that you never overcame or or if you did was incredibly difficult?
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Well, interesting that you ask about that because those individuals who follow me on social media, specifically through LinkedIn, you'll see, or Facebook, you'll see a post that I made, and I had I almost drowned as a child, and so I have a fear of my face in water. I have a fear of not seeing the ground, you know, seeing the the space where I can actually stand up and I'll be okay. So I've had some challenges through my life about that. I did in my early forties. I did take swimming lessons, although I've I and I did submerse my face in for the swimming and to do that, but I did it because I wanted to survive and I did it because I wanted my children to not see me not swimming because I wanted them to not have that fear of water. So I didn't want my fears to all of a sudden sort of, you know, template over to them. I didn't want to impress them with that fear, so I did that. But recently, Ben and I have been kayaking, and so that's been an experience because I don't know where the water is. I can't see the bottom, and I've been able to, over the past year, sort of work through that. So that's been my that's sort of my little fear. He he said on the last session, he says, you're doing so well. We should now do and this is the term I use. It it's it's called your recovery test, and that's when they purposefully turn the kayak over, and then you have to rescue yourself out of it. And I said, I'm somewhere between not now and never. Well, sounds like you're ready to go then. That's like a just a quantum bubble. Yeah. That that I don't think that's ready. I don't think I'm ready for that just yet. I know it's a matter of mind over matter. I know it's a whole I know that's just why I was able to do the swimming and to do that, but there was just there was something different about learning to swim in a pool, where I could see the bottom than actually, trying to, get myself out of a, out of a kayak that I sub listen. I have a challenge getting in the kayak already on the ground, so I'm thinking like, oh my gosh. I'm underwater trying to get out of it. Maybe gravity would help me, and so it won't be quite as bad as I think it would be, but I don't think I'm ready for it.
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Yeah. I was with you. I don't swim if I can't see my feet. Lake, ocean. I I go as far as I can see my feet, and that's it. Yeah. So that's my thing. I'm with you on that one. And but, you know, like, you ever have their fears? Like, I'm scared of the other heights. I'll jump off a cliff or something to a water pool if it's not too far. If I don't feel like I'm gonna over rotate and kill myself, it's just going to hurt a little bit. I'll do it. Yeah. Especially Especially if I've seen a guy fatter than me jumping first. That's a big one for water displacement. You see these little skinny dudes, like, oh, it's okay. But I'm like, Yeah, but I'm pushing out like, you know, 4 x the water than you are, you know. But so when I like, you know, but I'm not jumping out of a perfectly good airplane at any point unless I'm have to because that perfectly good airplane is gonna go down, then then I might might bounce out. But that's it. No doubt. What's your what's the, like, the one thing that may keeps you up at night?
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The interesting that you asked that because it also kind of rolls into a little different kind of fear, But the one thing that keeps me up at night is will I continue to make enough money to support my family who is counting on me? And so my wife and I built a multi generational house in November of 22 is when we moved into it. So our daughter, husband, and 4 kids live on one side, my wife and I on the other. So that's quite an aggressive posture to take, especially when one is late in their career. And although I have a really good retirement program and the company is doing very well, I I still fear that will I let them down? Will I not be there to make sure that things are working for them? And, that just I I think that's just it. And it's all I think it really stems from the fact because I really believe in taking care of others first and then self, and so I'm constantly thinking about that and, what that may be like. So it sort of drives me also too. So there's a good side of it. So it's not that I'm depressed with that particular thought, but I'm actually motivated to make sure that I'm continuing to do work and then I'm continuing to make, proposals and create client relationships and, you know, really help others, but also be able to retain the financial rewards that come with that.
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Yeah. Well, listen, that's one of the things that keep most entrepreneurs up is that it's interesting. It's that fear of of, like, man, is it going to all go away? And and I know that's a daily thing for me where I'm like, you know, you have a bad week where you lose your customers. You're like, fuck. What am I gonna do? And then you're you're like and then you're you're it's somewhere between. It's never as high as you think it's gonna get as much money, and it's never as low as you think. And you have to keep telling yourself that as long as you're being diligent to keep growing and you're not literally sitting on your ass, it will go away if you don't do anything. But if you're working, you're going, you've got your things together, your processes, it won't. And those can but the funny thing to me is when you're in a W-two job, you check out like it's there forever. And that's what blows me away when when I tell people, hey, listen, you know, that's it's more secure to be an entrepreneur. You're just going to try to. But the mindset is you try to think it's some of your best months is what you're trying to compare to a W-two job. And if you can get to that point where you're making as much as you were in your other job, awesome for you. You've really hit it like you've done it. But if you never do look at it in the context of you're happier, you have more of your own control of your time and what you're doing. And truthfully, the money is more secure because you control it. You're the pen for success or failure. So I will remove that pedestal once again. Thank you for letting me speak at your podcast. No problem. What's the biggest lesson you've learned?
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That you can't trust everyone.
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Oh, please give the example.
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The Hallmark moment. Oh my gosh. You know, I'm a very trusting person, so it's just my nature is that when I first meet people, I trust them. I believe that people are, you know, really built for good, that that somewhere along the way something must have changed because they, you know, don't always show up in their best self. And so it's, you know, just really understanding that that for me, I have to balance the trust and that build the relationship, build the trust. So I start with a good level of trust to begin with and then sort of wanna make sure that I'm building on it. I want people to trust me, so it's real important that I stick to my word and I do what I say, and, you know, I've had some, you know, w two bosses that have not kept their word. When they say something, it sounded really good. So they have what I call that romantic moment where they say something that makes them sound like they're writing for a sitcom, and so that little moment of making you feel really good was really designed more for what they're going to get out of it than really for you, but you kinda think it's for you. And you you have faith in them that they're going to fulfill on their promise, and then they don't fulfill on their promises. And that really, you know, really makes a difference, and that's why for me, I like to make sure that, you know, from my perspective, I've got people who are counting on me. I've got businesses. I've got companies. I have leaders who have said that this is the guy who should come in and be effective in helping us do what we have hired him to do. I need to do my job. I need to do that. So I need to make sure that the difference between what I say and what I do is like here. Yeah. And that's the that's, I think, the thing that, it really makes a lot of difference. And so, really, it's building up that trust and making sure that we have a good opportunity, to to trust one another and try try not to do something that causes people not to wanna trust you.
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You know, Beelzebub had a devil for a son put aside for me. For me. For me? Sorry. That was from Queen going back. We're doing a little tie back to the and I say that because it's something a question I don't normally ask, but since you've kind of offered it, how important has faith been to your your just entrepreneurial journey?
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Well, it's good for me. It's my grounding. It's my grounding source, And, you know, and I believe that I can express my faith and have my faith be a part of what I do without it being a bible thumping or a podium thumping sort of experience. You know, I'm not integrating my faith into the work that I do to convert people to my faith or my belief, but I'm doing it to show who I am in my faith, in my interactions with people each and every day. And I do believe that there is some misunderstanding when people think that from an HR perspective that you can't talk about religion at work, and what really is you can't evangelize religion at work. But if someone were to ask me my faith like you just did, then I have an opportunity to share, you know, that my faith is is grounded in the Bible is the truth. I believe in God, and I believe that Jesus was the son of God. And so that is my faith background. And now it's a matter of, okay, can I how do I live that out? And one of the ways I live that out is in through that servant mindset where I'm always thinking of what can I do for someone else, and then also for myself, what does that look like in in in making that work? So I think that's how my faith is, how my faith shows up at at work and with the people I talk to.
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You know, it's, you know, a couple years ago, I could have done a few comedy sets on faith, for sure and religion. You're about two and a half years or so into it now. I'm, like, kind of on a little journey. Like, I'm not showing up in one's house, you know, asking to talk to them and see if you found Jesus or not. But that's not happening ever. But and and nor should it, by the way. People people in Georgia have guns. You just don't wanna show up and roll up on someone's house, like, hi. Anyway, so just don't wanna do that here. Just guys don't. Even if you got money, just people are gonna assume they want something, so don't do it. That being said, you know, as I as I kind of think through entrepreneurship, there's always the to me, it's the calling, the moment, you know, and then this purpose, which is usually the trigger for the tipping point to become your own kind of entrepreneur, and it could be a bad boss. It could be whatever it is. The purpose could be related to a parent. It could be a mix it's usually a mixture of something that says, you know, enough. I've had enough pain. I've been shocked enough time. It's in this cage. I'm walking out. Right? But the unleashing, right, that's when you have to cut those ties to the anchors, to the to the to the excuses you're making. And you talked about a fear. Is that the only and that's to me the biggest one. It's letting go of the fear. The fear of drowning is one thing, but what was maybe the biggest fear you had to face in business that you really had to overcome?
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Losing a client. So it's not fun and especially if the reason is you just didn't make the connection with people the way you expected. And so I had this, client experience where I got along really well with the CEO that was really awesome, and so it helped me change something. So got along really well with the CEO. CEO brought me in, wanted me to, make some, you know, transformational magic happen, and so I'm off to the races with people. And what I recognized is that the leadership team was not in congruency with the way the CEO thought, and so I learned from that experience, and so my my opportunities to to work now with an organization is I don't want to just be the CEO boy, I want to be the senior leadership boy. I want to be the guy that that the group thinks of is the person and I need to make sure that we have some interaction, so part of my onboarding and part of my, introduction, in the process is to make sure that we have some some meetings beyond just the the CEO where you're bringing in some secondary people. And I don't need all this I don't need all the executive team. So if there's a executive team of 10 people, I don't need buy in of all 10 people. What I need is a coalition. I need a small group of people, at least 3, that will that I know that are in alignment with the CEO that's had a chance to meet me and that they have a chance to be able to say, yes, I like this guy, and this guy can do something for us because I believe in what he's saying, so so therefore I know the programs he's gonna bring in are gonna support what we wanna do because you need those people who will support you when you're gone. And so I've learned I learned that, and so now that just I built that into into the practice. And, and I also, like, I also will have people who who are a couple layers down in the organization who have seen me do presentations, hear me speak at conferences. They like what I said. They want me to come in, so they start talking with me, specifically, like, in the HR realm. And I make sure I I I need to know where the CEO is, and will I have an opportunity to meet the CEO? And if the CEO is not on board, then I don't wanna do the work. Because what I know is that that executive team, that CEO can unravel all the stuff that we put in place in just a single moment. And if they by the way they speak something at a meeting, Maybe they make fun of something that they shouldn't have made fun of. Maybe they, you know, sort of talk about the what we're doing, but they don't have the full grasp of what we're doing, and it begins to start questioning what's really happening. They talk about it as in you people need to do this program, and they don't have an ownership for the program. It just doesn't work. And so because I'm about transformation with inside an organizational culture, and it requires it to start from the top down, and so we do our programs from the top down, bottom up. But if the top down is not in order and not in in where it needs to be, then it's not gonna happen, and it's why when I wrote the Cohesion Culture book, I wrote it into 3 acts. The first act is about leadership, so I need to make sure leadership is right because if you don't have the mindset right, you don't have that right, then all the other stuff doesn't fall in place. The second two chapters and the second act is on the culture itself, what really makes up a good culture, how does the culture form itself, and then the final two chapters is is, the act of bringing it to life and it's examples of how you can take those practices and principles that I introduced from the first four chapters and really make it happen. And I do it in a fun way. It's not your it's not your business book where there's a lot of, you know, my thing from the PhD, all of a sudden I'm going to talk so technical about things, but I actually incorporate music and poetry and lyrics and movies and scenes of things are all sort of interacting with it and that's more of the metaphorical and when I think you talked before about asking about the, metaphors or similes. The difference is metaphors are sharing stories so that people can see what that story is like and gain some, you know, maybe understanding of how he could apply to them. And so I really become a metaphorical, coach and a metaphorical instructor and metaphorical person. I'm just one metaphor. Or 2? Act 1 waiting to happen.
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There we go. Is your is your book a metaphor as well? So acts 1 and 2, when you're in an organization, it's the rise, and there's always gonna be a fall. And then act 3, we resolve. Okay. I thought maybe Nope. It's actually If you had done that, I would have been impressed, but I'm just not impressed by your book now. Sorry. Yeah. It's it's okay. You don't it I don't worry about whether you like me or not. I know that the material is good.
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The material was effective to enough people to make it a best seller, and it's still selling today. So I feel like, okay. We're good.
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Thanks. He thanks. He did that. We talked about that. Yeah. She talked. You yeah. That's how that's how we we talked about that's bringing it full circle, people. I I said, you know what? I don't I don't think it's right. And he's like, you know what? It doesn't matter. It works. It works. And that's the point. And so, hey, conscious of time here a little bit, I want to hear what your number one takeaway away tip is if you're the genie in the bottle and someone goes, hey, you know, Dr. Troy, what's the what's the one tip I should do as an entrepreneur?
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Well, as an entrepreneur, you should surround yourself with people who know more than you do. So Okay. One of the greatest myths that we have is that an individual believes that they have to know everything and do everything. And so one of my little mantras that I talk about is you don't have to know everything. You just need to be teachable, and that builds back into what I was doing before. So you surround yourself with people who know what to do. You also understand that there is motivation and systems that help you with goal success. And it's not just the tactical items that you're going to do, but what are the systems that are going to help support what you're doing. And so systems can be things that you might find in a book by James Clear, Atomic Habits, where you might find about habit stacking, you might find some ideas about journaling, and a number of things. And so I've collected 12 that I find to be very effective for for leaders to, to fall back on, to start there, and then they can expand, what they're doing from there. And I also think it's important that the leader understand that their responsibility, the entrepreneur's responsibility is to not only share the vision but teach it. So you can share the vision with people, so you can say this is where you're going, but if you spend no energy teaching them on how they can participate in that vision, what they can do, then you you don't you you don't provide a good foundation for them. You you have to always be the one pushing people up the hill, and I always think that it's much better if you can get people around you who are energized who will then move things forward. And sometimes as an entrepreneur, you want it to be so perfect that you actually impede the progress that can happen. And I like to think of it to go, did this activity accomplish the basis of what we were trying to get done? And the answer is yes. Did you do it exactly the way I would have done it? No. But did you accomplish what needed to be done? Yes. Then great. Let it go. Stop fussing over trying to make things perfect. The other thing is you can't have everything really batten down to the point of it of it being as thorough as you want it to be. You need to have enough of it so that you can put it in progress so that you can begin to test and experiment with it. Part of being a good learning organization is to to really think through 5 things that I'll leave this conversation I'll end this portion of the conversation on these 5 things. There's 1, be generative in the way you accept new information. Generative says I'm going to learn about it for how it will impact me not only today, but in the future. I will be adaptive, not just flexible. Flexible is kind of I go here, I go there. To be adaptive is I'm going to be proactive in putting a change in place when I know that change is going to make a difference in what I do. I'm going to experiment. I'm going to make sure that I maybe pilot things out, that I don't put everything all into one basket, but I make sure that I see where can I test this as I continue to roll it out? Then I'm going to have diversity of thought. I'm gonna make sure that there are other people who are going to participate in this and not just from ideas, but one of the systems that you can use for goal success is to know the who. Who has already done it, who has been successful, and what can I learn from them? And then the final thing is be good stewards of the resources that you're given, the resources of the organization, and the resources of the individuals who are working with you, those employees that you have within your company. So whether you're a small entrepreneur of 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 people, or whether you're a larger, entrepreneurial organization, you should really be thinking about those resources because the the definition of leadership that I subscribe to and that I teach is that leaders are responsible to motivate, influence, and enable others to be successful. The motivation is to stimulate them. You wanna stimulate them toward the vision that you've set up for the company with their clear expectation of their role. You wanna influence them by molding their thinking and making sure that individuals think in the way that you want, and, typically, we align those with the core values or the guiding principles of the organization. And then lastly, we wanna enable those, employees by giving them the resources they need and being there to remove the obstacles that keep them from being successful.
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Fantastic advice. And I think first of all, who should get a hold of you and how should somebody get a hold of you if you want to learn more about what you bring to the table for talent retention and just transformation?
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Well, thanks. So it's not only organizations, but individuals can reach out because I help them develop what their career can look like and how they can then perform in their career to get the most out of it. We know that 71% of individuals want growth development and advancement, so we have programs, and I have programs specifically for individuals, but also for the corporate company. So I work definitely with CEOs, executives, HR professionals in those areas because we're working around culture and leadership. So it's around my expertise is around talent, talent retention, to be able to do that. And, I'm a and I'm gonna turn off my humility button for just a moment. You'll find that that's one of those seven attributes because I wanna offer just some additional evidence to people who might be a little skeptical, like, oh, yeah, you can talk about your stuff, but does anybody else talk about your stuff? So 2 acknowledgements that I've received recently, one is with Brains Magazine, which is an international magazine that is out of Sweden that visits, about 26 different countries. I was named as one of their Global 500 recipients, which means that I am one of the 500 global entrepreneurs that they recognize in the field of talent retention or in in all fields, but my field was talent retention. They recognize me as one of their declared their talent retention expert of the year.
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That's amazing. Great. Great.
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Some good creds to drop in there. Some social proof. I love it. Yeah. And and I wanna say this about them. So when I talked about them wasn't to really brag about myself, it was to really provide validation for the work and also to understand that these individuals were not acknowledging me because I was ending my career. This isn't the gold watch that you get because you've done a good job in what you've done. This is a these are organizations that are recognizing the work that is yet to be done. So I look at it as I take it as my challenge to say if you have recognized me for that, I can't just sit on my laurels of what I've done that to earn that recognition. I have to past, but for what I can do in the future. And so that's why it was important for me to past, but for what I can do in the future. And so that's why it was important for me to mention that to you. I I love that. I mean and I was I was lucky enough to have Brains.
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They mentioned us a couple of years ago as well for some of the cool stuff we were doing with my marketing firm. And it was neat to be on some of the same pages as as some other people. So very cool stuff. If there was one question I didn't ask you, what would it have been?
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You might have asked me more about what's it like living in a multigenerational family. Do we do we have enough time for that answer? Because that seems like there's some some crazy family dynamics with that one, but, yeah, please tell me I think No. I want to make that the next reason that you offer me back again is so that I can talk about how does being a leader of a multigenerational family act like you being an entrepreneur.
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I think we that would be a good topic because I think now it's the vision to say, hey. I wanna keep my family close, and, and I also make fun of companies to say, you know, we're a family. I I I just come on. A sports team maybe, again, might be the way to better metaphor. Dr. Troy Hall, thank you so much for for being,
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just a fantastically insightful guest for today. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. So you wanna know where you can find me? Sure. Where can I find you? Good. So you can find me in social media at drtroyhall, doctortroyhall. You can find me on my website at drtroyhall.com, and there's an opportunity to connect with me. There's also an opportunity to schedule a a little confer a little conference if you'd like to know more about what, I do and what our Croatian culture crew does and how we can, help your organization. Would love to do that.
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Do you have, like, a glass front window where we can just watch multifamily living come together in a multi generational home? Would that that be like can we observe that, like, from online or something?
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No. I've not I've not done that because I've really protected the privacy of the family.
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Yeah. There's a story that goes back to that when when my old school. Yeah. It's and, well, you know, it's it's like I am not ready for I love reality TV. I love watching reality TV, but I'm not ready to be a subject of reality TV. No. I I'm with you. I'm giving you it'd be funny. Thank you so much. At Dr. Troy Hall, d r t r o y h a l l. Correct? It's the That's it. That's the hook. Alright. Thank you so much. For anybody who's made it this part in the in the podcast, thank you so much for listening and and watching. If you've been here before, you you rock. And if this is your first time, I hope you come back so I can tell you you rock as well. The, the mission is clear. Help a 1000000 entrepreneurs get better at entrepreneurship, Help them cut the tide at the things that hold them back, the excuses you're making, and all those fears that you're holding on to that you don't need to. My mission is is clear, and I wanna help you do this through these interviews. And if you can do anything, if you really like the show, do the 5 star, please. It's so important to the guests and the community. Apple, Spotify, and, Amazon are 2 3 great platforms for that. And finally, the YouTube channel at Never Been Promoted. Until we meet next time, get out there. Go unleash
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your entrepreneur. Thanks. Hey, Thomas. Thomas, I have one more thing if you have time. Please. Okay. So I'm gonna leave everyone with this thought. You cannot be a victor of your future if you're held captive by your past.