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Welcome back to another episode of Never Been Promoted. We're helping you unleash your entrepreneur, and we're doing this through the stories of others, from learning from other entrepreneurs on their successes, failures. If this is your first time visiting, thanks for, for coming. And if you've been back here before, I hope you pull something out of this one that helps you on your entrepreneurial journey as well. And if this is your first time, I hope it's the first of many times you come here, because it's really a movement we're making to help entrepreneurs help others. I think we need more entrepreneurs in the world, and they need to be better at it quicker. And if we can help a little bit to do that, that's our mission here at Never Been Promoted. I'm Thomas Helfrich, the host, and we're about to meet Karim Kerachni. He is the, director of franchise development at PropertyGuys. And, Karim, how are you, by the way? I'm doing great. Thank you. Thank you, Thomas. Thanks for having me. Of course. Like, this is great. So Kareem's, one of those, the guys who's figured out the world way younger than anyone that I know. He's living in Malaysia. He lives in Canada. He's kinda doing what he wants as a as a, you know, an entrepreneurial spirit, helping others become entrepreneurs from, through franchising, which is a great method. We'll talk about that here in a minute. But do you wanna just take a couple of minutes to introduce yourself and, you know, and what you're doing at PropertyGuys? Absolutely. Yeah. For sure. So
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in a nutshell, I grew up in France. I moved back to Canada where I was born, about 10 years ago. And, I've never had a normal job, so I've never been promoted. That's why I was excited to be on your show. Yeah. I I have a background in, in sales and then independent contractor. And then I started my first business, in in the cleaning industry about 5 5, 6 years ago now, in Canada, grew it to, to multiple locations. And then I came across, PropertyGuys. And so what, ticked with me was, you know, the the fact that it is a franchise model. And since I've done the growing business from scratch and, you know, all the costly mistakes that come with it, all the the the struggles from growing in a brand and the reputation and systems and so on, I got, you know, automatically excited, by the, the the the franchise world, which I very much discovered with with PropertyGuys. And so, a year and a half, almost 2 years ago now, I started a business that partnered with PropertyGuys for their per for the purpose of their business, the the franchise development, in, in the US because it is a Canadian company that is expanding in the US. And so as you mentioned, I am in charge of franchise development for New England and specifically focused on Massachusetts for now. And then we're going to going to expand to, to other states. So that's what I'm doing. And as you mentioned, I am doing that remotely because that has been a a dream of mine to to be work to to to work and travel, for many years. And so I've been doing that for a year and a half and very grateful to to be able to do that. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's amazing that you kinda take this path, and I would argue the normal job is,
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I really like the term because I think entrepreneurship working for yourself should be the normal job and the exception being you go work for somebody else. I love the change in mentality of that because, I don't know. I want you to get going in your own thing and and and you're, you know, you I'm sure you're hunting, you know, and you're eating what you hunt and doing these things. So you are you in the fact are an entrepreneur even though you're working for a company because you're out there developing it, and you're a form of a franchise yourself by doing it. And and one thing I love about franchises that you don't realize when you when you're becoming an entrepreneur, when you do the 0 to hero, is it's better to have a blueprint. Like Exactly. Yeah. Right? And then the other piece of that is if you're not ready to follow blueprint because you just have to do it yourself because that's what you're itching to do because you're coming out of a corporate world. Go go do that first. I know taking that path last 3 years, I'm like, man, if someone could give me a blueprint to start this company, I would've been a terrible franchise owner because I wouldn't have followed it. I'll be like, I got it this way. What do you think about that? And and no doubt about it. So, in your in your world, like right? So PropertyGuys, tell me about this model because if you're gonna become an entrepreneur, one of the things I wanna be able to share with the audience is a way to do that. It's another way. And so let let's hear about what they're doing at PropertyGuys and maybe what their value proposition is relevant relevant to the, or relative, I'm sorry, to the millions of other franchises that may be available.
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Yeah. Absolutely. So just before touching on this, I I just wanted to follow-up on, on on something that you just said. The the cool thing about, a franchise so the difference between starting a business from scratch and, acquiring a business that is that is already set and you just, you know, you just, buy it and and then, proceed to to to grow it and take it to the next level. The cool thing with the franchise model, it's right in between. In the sense of you are an entrepreneur and a business owner in every sense of the way, there is a lot that, you can still kind of figure out or at least make, you know, make your own. But as you mentioned, a franchise, what you purchase is not only the brand, but also all the systems and processes and the the training, the operation manual. So it comes with this bro blueprint. You know what you have to do. You know how to do it. But then you can kind of make it your own and and acquire often franchisees who are successful, acquire multiple location, multiple, multi units. And, and so it's this sweet spot between being an entrepreneur and and acquiring a business already existing. And that's what I find, fascinating.
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Well, I wanna peel that on you just one second because I think that's when the Sure. Sure. You first see a franchise opportunity. I know I'm guilty of this. I'm thinking of I'm gonna be working in this business. And what you described is when you get multiple locations, you've you've the a good franchise, in my opinion, is one that sets you up to work on it. Meaning, you have to make it where the franchise location one makes. It's profitable at whatever it is, but it might not be enough to maybe, you know, pay all the bills or maybe enough just to get you to kinda to cover what you have at home or whatever you need. The second location when you repeat the model is where the third is where you start stacking. And if I've got that right, I mean, that's where, you know, you become kind of a that's where you make the money is when you start you can do multilocation, which means you've got the right model in place where it allows you to step away and either keep growing it or just take what you can and be managing it. So is that You you you cannot
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fair? Yeah. You cannot. Right? I think they are they are all types of, of franchise. And, actually, what you're saying is not specific to franchise in my opinion. This is in business. That's what I have done with my my cleaning company. I you know, as fast as possible, I try to remove myself from the process of moving from being the cleaner to having some helpers to them being the manager and then being the owner and then, you know, just overseeing things and and keeping an eye. But at this point, we we I don't have, you know, anything to do, in the business. I think what you you said is very relevant to any business owners where whether it is, you know, a start up model, a franchise, or a business that you acquire. But, it's not I don't think it's, it should be the goal for everyone. I know that there are lots of, whether it is franchisee or business owners who love what, you know, what they're doing. Even though they're owning the business, they want to be hands on and involved in it. In the case of PropertyGuys, and I'm I'm still going to answer your question about what is PropertyGuys.
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No. I'll I'll just case of property No. This is great. I don't mean to interrupt you, but, like, this is perfect because it it gives you the context of becoming a franchise owner. I know there's some there's apprehensions I've had, but biggest ones being cost, time to revenue, or time to, you know, in black, and then just also sometimes the cost of borrowing money to start it just it just seems way too risky. So the fact that you're saying that it's not for everybody, please peel into that a little bit because I would think why wouldn't it be? Like, the the multilocation
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stuff. Sure. So so yeah. No. What what I was, leading to is that, you know, there are lots of franchise or businesses where the owner is very passionate about, the the thing, the doing. And, you know, say, I don't know, a bakery. You can be the owner of the bakery. You can actually have the big the the bakery all, you know, well set up so you you're not needed in the day to day but still wants to be part of the day to day. Or you can have it set up, around you. And, yes, it is more risky because something happens to you or, you know, the the the the business might be in trouble. Or if you wanna retire or whatever it might be, it is more risky, but that's also a way, for a certain amount of time to potentially acquire more, basically making more money because you're lowering your overhead and be then able to, to, you know, to to to reinvest in the business or or acquire a second degree or whatever it might be. So what PropertyGuys does and has been doing for 25 years now, as I mentioned, in in Canada initially, it is an alternative solution to the traditional real estate model. It's basically a different way for people to buy and sell real estate. As you may know, the real estate industry is hasn't changed in over a 100 years. It is ripe for disruption because it hasn't, had much innovation over the past 100 years. And so, the traditional way for people to sell a property, for instance, it is to get a real estate agent and pay a commission of 5, 6%, and getting also a lawyer and a photographer and a stager and so on and so forth. So, at the end of the day, not only you kind of lose control in the process of selling your property, but also you get to spend 30, 40, 50, $60 or more to sell your own property. So all that value that you have acquired with your with your house, over the years, well, it's all, you know, pretty much flushed down the drain, when you want to sell it. So it's not really fair, and that's what PropertyGuys, come comes to fix. So the the model with PropertyGuys is is quite simple. You actually get to choose a package of services, all the services that you need. So as little if you want to do things a little bit more on your own or all the services that you need in a package, all of that for one time flat fee, everything included. And that one time flat fee is usually in the 4, 5, 6 grand range instead of 40, 50, 60 grand. And so it's about 10 times to sometimes 15 times cheaper, to get the same results, to get a very smooth and transparent process where you can also keep a little bit more control in the process. So you can imagine how successful it's it's been over the past 25 years. We've worked with 100 of thousands of, of, home buyers and sellers. And as you mentioned, from a business standpoint, it is a franchise model, meaning that, each territory, each each part of, of the country, are owned by franchisees. So they have an exclusive, territory that they they manage under the PropertyGuys brand, but it is their business. And and so what they do, they, their role is somewhat similar to the one of a realtor, but with a much larger volume of clients and with much less involvement with each of those clients. In the sense of all the services that I mentioned are actually delegated to exclusive, partners with whom we we partner sorry. Professionals with whom we partner with, locally. So the the photographer and the the the stager and the lawyer and so on. The mortgage brokers with and we partner with. And so all those professionals are the one providing the service to the clients. And what PropertyGuys in the franchisee do, they they they are simply in charge of the the the business development, bringing, you know, more listings, more clients into the system, and then making sure that it goes smooth through the process. But they don't have to be involved individually with every single one of those home buyers and home sellers. If I I I hope, that makes sense. So, in a way, being a franchisee for someone who loves real estate, they get to provide a lot more value than the traditional model to a lot more people in each, territory where they operate. And, so it's just a game changer and and, revolution for for the industry.
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So I have lots of questions here. So this is good. So I I love this because Please. I don't I don't I've never liked the idea of a percentage of my house when the reality is a smaller house is harder to sell than a bigger one, at times because it's it just is. I I've I've seen it. There's more issues typically and and whatever else. So maybe that's a debate. Agent is going to spend less time on your house if you have a smaller house because it can make a much bigger commission across the street. Well well, exactly. So so so a a few questions that so one of the things, like, you know, I know we sold our last house with we we found our own buyer. There was no on either end. You know, we made 6% more because of it. So we could go buy a house during, you know, during this is during, you know, COVID times that was on the rise of being overvalued, but we got a better competitive advantage because we had 6% of 1 house house more to go spend on the other without it costing us. Exactly. And and and the truth of the matter is all we ever did was from a title company was sign one document prior to listing it, so to speak, or selling it. And it was like, we staged it. You're still the one cleaning it. And, like so if you're a homeowner, you're still on the hook for all that stuff. Like like, not we didn't you know, like, you take your own it's not hard to take pictures now. Like, the point being is I agree with you in this piece. So so here are my questions. So let's say, who do you want to use it? Is it me who's trying to sell my house? Is that the initial buyer, like, this initial user of propertyguys.com?
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So, PropertyGuys works so the the the clients are 3 types. The the sellers are the core of, PropertyGuys' business and and the franchisees' businesses. The buyers as well, if the franchisee is licensed, because not all franchisee are licensed. The majority actually are not licensed. If they are licensed, they actually also can work with buyers. And so that literally double their revenue and profit, for for franchisee to be to be licensed. And they actually play also in the rental sphere. So we have a whole different offering, for landlords and tenants. So there are multiple streams of income within a franchise. So you need to be a a licensed agent to sell or to buy? Not to sell. No. To be a franchisee, you don't need to be licensed. And that's one of our selling point, no pun intended, is that and it has been for the longest time, that you don't need a real estate license. So a lot of people want to get in real estate, but they realize, okay. Either I have to be a real estate agent, which is expensive. You have to take, you know, a test and maintain your license and and struggle for years before, you know, being somewhat successful. Or you can be a real estate investor. You need money. So a lot of people wanna play in the real estate game, and, they don't know how. So the this type of franchise is a is a great option. You don't need a license. You have full training and ongoing support. And and the reason why franchisee don't need to be licensed because, the licensed services within the packages that are sold to the clients, For for instance, putting the listing on the MLS, professional showings, the negotiation, and so on, all of that is delegated to a licensed agent with whom we partner. This licensed agent with whom we partner with whom the franchisee partner can be a neighboring franchisee who is himself licensed, or it can be a small real estate brokerage locally, who understand what we do, the value of what we do, and they partner with us, for those licensed services. So to summarize, in the case of the franchisee was not licensed, they, they there is a, a perfect streamlined way around that. But we do encourage franchisee to be licensed or to get their license because they literally can see their revenue and profit doubling overnight when when they do so.
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So best of both worlds. Interesting. So so, you know, the because that that, the opportunity is there if you put the time in. So the the the the real estate agent that you'd have to work with and given the state or whatever it is, they're just getting a flat fee and they're accepting that we do flat fee work for their paper, basically, for their for their license. Exactly.
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And that's the case with all the professionals that we we work with, the that the franchisee work with from the photographer to the lawyer. They get a a flat amount that is agreed upon. But the the beauty for all of them is that they get a large volume of client. I didn't I didn't mention that, but franchise, you work with an average of about a 100 listings a year on average and about a similar number of buyers if they also work with buyers. This is a huge this is about 5 to 10 times more than any given agent. So there's huge, flow of, of clients being funneled to all those professionals, they win massively. You know? For a lawyer to get a 100, you know, new, contracts, you know, per per year, for a mortgage broker, for a photographer, this is this can be potentially,
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you know, life changing or Yeah. Game changer for them. Well, I mean, I I look at it this way too. Right? So you, especially coming in a down market where there's not multi offers, like, I quite honestly I mean, we could get into beta this, but I think agents at times drum up the value because they're incentivized to do so, as opposed to, just get the best software in front of you and, you know, you know you're saving 5, 6%. How do you handle, though, when the other the buyer has an agent? And so that you're I'm selling my property on propertyguys.com. What what how do you deal with the agent that has some kind of
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agreement with that? With with all, like, you know, the half percent, 2 and a half percent, or 3%. The buyer's agent. So that's, that's case by case. So that's the the franchisee and the seller's decision, case by case. So some I know that some franchisee, you know, advise their their clients either to offer a flat, you know, amount, couple of grand, something that is, you know, fair and reasonable. Sometime it is, you know, 1.5% to 1% or 2%, whatever, you know, is is decided case by case. But it's it's never from from what I know from franchisee. And again, to remind you, I'm not a franchisee, so I haven't had that experience personally. But from all the franchisee that I talked to, they they they usually deal with it pay by case, and it's not an issue. And it actually shouldn't be an issue, because the buyer's agent, is responsible and is, he has to bring to his clients, you know, all all the, the the, the the opportunities or, you know, the the offers. And something that happens, and everyone knows that is that they can skip some some offers if they're not going to be making, you know, a fair commission. And by the way, this is somewhat related to, to the massive law suit, you know, the the the class action lawsuit against, National Association of Realtors and Keller Williams and so on. I don't know if you heard of it. It's, it was huge just a few weeks ago. This unfair, unfair commission or unfair treatment, or, how was the the term I'm looking for? Collusion? Colluding? Like, the the the buyer's agent, the the and the the seller's agent colluding, to, for for a commission that should not be paid by the seller, basically. Long story short. So, I forgot your question.
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Well, listen. I think you bring your great point up. So so I'll get back to the person who's listening. As an entrepreneur, and you're looking for maybe new revenue streams, and and I was trying to find the lessons learned learned here, right, and the things. This is maybe a potential option for you is, franchising, but, specifically, a different way to look at you know, you you have to go find your customers. I I I see this probably being a great marketplace locally in a Facebook groups or just your own network of, hey, Check you know, good property. Why why pay an agent? Like, go here. Like, you know, it's all the resources needed. At least try it. Because I I've assumed though the property doesn't sell, they don't have to pay. Right? I mean, if they if they have a if you have a flat fee and nothing happens from it, they don't get offers, do they get their money back? Or how how does that work with you guys to kinda guarantee their
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their sign up? So they they actually we don't see, any difference, because the process at the end of the day, the services that the the sellers get those listings get, is, at the bare minimum, the same services that it would get through the traditional model. And usually, they actually get more services. They get, you know, within the packages you can have, as I mentioned earlier, 3 d modeling of the property with virtual tours where you can visit the property in detail, online. You know, drone shots. I mean, a whole bunch of things that can be added to those packages that actually makes the value even better than what they would get through the traditional model. So there is no difference in term of if the property is going to be sold or not compared to the traditional model. If the property takes time to get sold, it would have taken time to get sold, through the traditional model, if if that makes sense. So to answer your question, no, the the the flat fee is either paid upfront or when, when it's, it's sold, but it is due to to to the franchisee. And that's one of the cool thing with the franchisee. They actually have even though it's a much smaller amount, you know, 4, 5, 6 grand instead of 30, 40, 50, but they actually it is, it is a certainty and it is more consistent since at any given time they are dealing with 5 to 15 different listings. So for the cash flow because when you think I always compare with agents. Agent can spend a lot of money, a lot of time for weeks or months and not make a dime at the end of the day, if the client, you know, decided to move on with someone else or whatever it might be. So from the standpoint of, real estate agents, since real estate agents are my prime, target audience because they they are the best fit for this franchise model, They can be struggling for weeks, for months. They can be even struggling for years to make a name for themselves, to differentiate themselves, stand out from the crowd, and so on. When if they are a franchisee, not only they work with a much larger volume, it's more consistent. The cash flow is more, you know, more regular. And they actually get to be a real business owner because they own the business. They can grow the business. They can delegate. They can automate. They can sell the business eventually. A real estate agent cannot. They have a license. They can work for 40 years and have nothing to sell at I mean, they cannot sell their license. They have quote, unquote nothing to show for Yeah. Unless they become a broker Their savings. On the business. Right? On yours, right, so how how does your how does your model work? After if you pay, like, you know, what's the entry point for fees?
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And then how how does the is the franchise fee just based on the monthlies or whatever else? Are they based on what you sell and and and such? Or tell tell me about your model a bit. Yeah. So the normal, franchise fee so in Canada, that's where we're gonna get to in in, in the US as well. So it's, it's between,
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55, 60, and 75 k depending on the on the territory. So it's fairly affordable. But right now in Massachusetts where I'm I'm focused, I don't close the door as we talked, before the show. I don't close the door on anyone in other states, but my main focus is on Massachusetts right now because I think it's gonna be the, the, the hub or the the heart of the growth across New England. So right now we're offering them between, 35,401,000, again, depending on the territory. So we're making it very affordable, relatively speaking. You know, lots of franchise are over, you know, multiple 100 of 1,000 of dollars and even, you know, a 1,000,000, 1,500,000. So 35 to 40 k to all your territory is very, it's very fair. And then the cool thing is the ongoing expense, basically the overhead are very low as well. So someone with, long story short, all included, less than a $100 or about a $100, can own a territory and operate it for 6 months to 1 year and, you know, get become profitable very quickly, because of those low overheads. And the reason why it it it is a model with low overhead, because you don't need to buy or rent any kind of office or store or anything like this. And you don't need to hire anyone, at least at first, for your 1st year or your 1st 2 years because and that's one of the beauty with a franchise model. A lot of the services that you would need to hire for are actually provided to you by the franchisor. That's the value you get from a franchise model. You get the brand, you get the systems and processes, and you get, a bunch of people working for you or with you. So for instance, a marketing department that provides, you know, all the graphics that you need, graphic design and all the the marketing strategy and so on. We have obviously all the the tech that you need, the website, the SEO, the CRM, and so on. We provide also a call center that does inbound and outbound calls. So not only they take on calls from potential buyers, potential sellers, so they you don't get hundreds of calls, you know, to you every day. They they take those calls. They qualify those, those people, you know, take them through the funnel for you. And they also make calls for you, if you have, you know, any leads and so on. So as you can see, a lot of, the legwork and, is taking off your shoulders so you can focus on growing your brand locally, growing proprietary guys locally. And and that's,
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that's going to bring, you know, more and more business down the road as as you go. I I love it. And I think I think as you're you're in entrepreneurship, I'm I'm gonna talk to you offline about the Georgia area, southeast, because the the the point of entry cost is low real for that. And the fact that you don't need to rent space, which means the worst you're gonna do is lose your investment if you just decide to say the hell with it. But the the point being is that's a great entry point to have something just try to start even as a side hustle for yourself because it's you know, there's there's work to be done. But once you get it running, it's how much effort you put into it and how you know, and obviously, the the the franchisor wants you to put the full effort into those things. But
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It's it's all about what you you you put in there. You have to slow times with that. That that's what I like about that. You know? COVID hits 100%. You don't have to have an office that's getting killed. Like, no one's coming to you. You can anyway, so I You don't have salaries to pay every month and and and so on. So, yeah, it is it is fairly low risk. It is low risk because it is franchise. There is low also low risk because you know exactly what you have to do, and it's, it's really a model that works in any kind of of market. But, just to balance on what you just said, as I mentioned, my my primary you know, the the best candidates that we have are usually real estate professionals, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, real estate investors. Those are great prime candidates, but we actually, over the years, have had people coming from all kind of horizons. We've had nurses and teachers and retirees, veterans, and so on and so forth who have no background in business or in real estate. But because we provide all this training and ongoing support that that's their way to learn business and entrepreneurship and and real estate. And then potentially after 5 or 10 or 15 years, they sell their franchise
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for, you know, 5 or 10 times more. They take this money and they go start their own venture if they want to. That's great. So listen, I like, I've, I I've loved the conversation around this. This is fantastic. And if you're not interested by now, I I'm I'm a bit surprised, but,
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how do you get a hold of you, Karim? What's the, what's the takeaway? What's their call to action to to get a hold of you? So the best way to reach out to me is on LinkedIn. I'm very active on, on LinkedIn, and I think that's where we we first, connected a while ago, Thomas, 6 or 7 months ago. So if you type my name, Karen Kureshi, I'm the only one there. You'll see, you'll see my face. You'll see the logo. So don't hesitate to to connect and and and start a conversation. You might be interested on that in that. You might just want to, to chat about entrepreneurship, business ownership, being a having a nomadic lifestyle as an entrepreneur.
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I'm always open to, to connect. But also if you type properly guys' message to say it's a properly guys franchise on Google, you will find my website and all the information as well to to learn more. Wonderful. I appreciate it. Cream, thanks for joining me today. I appreciate that. I've learned a lot about what you guys are doing, and, and always like I love the idea of franchises. I just haven't found quite quite the right one for us yet. But I'm interested in this because it's, you know, entry point's low and, you know, not having an office sounds great. I'm just somebody who, you know, set up a studio at their own home and might interest in going to an office every day. So this is great. And if you've made it this far in the show, thank you so much, by the way, for listening. Find find cream on on LinkedIn. We'll put a link in the show notes. And until we kind of meet again out there, I want you to go out there and unleash your entrepreneur. Thank you for listening.