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Welcome back to another episode of Never Been Promoted. Hi. I'm Thomas Helfrich, your host here, and we are all about unleashing your entrepreneur. And my mission specifically is to help 1000000 entrepreneurs just get better at entrepreneurship in life. You know, get started, get unstuck, get out of your own way. And we're doing this through, the journey and stories of other entrepreneurs who have made it, who are in the thick of it, who have failed, who've gotten back up. If you can learn one thing from today, you've done everything you need to to take one more step to become a better entrepreneur. Now if this is your first time, you know, coming here, I really do appreciate you trying, and and I hope you stay around and come back for many more. And if you've been here before, I'm gonna pre award a few dad points. I always give away dad points because they're super important to the ego of anyone. I don't know. If you could figure out where to spend them, let me know. But, today, hey. Listen. Let's meet our new entrepreneur that we're meeting today, Greg Shanken. Greg is the founder of Gloss, a marketing agency. He's got a great story, and I'm not gonna tease it out because Greg's gonna tell it. But, Greg, thank you for joining today. Thank you, Thomas. Great to be here. Listen. I you and I know each other a bit offline, and I'm gonna get out of the way. You talk you set up your backstory here a bit of, you know, bring us up to just to to Gloss.
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Sure. That would be great, and feel free to get in the way as you wish. And so, I am the founder and CEO of Gloss. We're a digital marketing and web dev agency out of Boulder, Colorado, and that's a nice mug that Thomas is drinking there. I'm gonna interject. I'm drinking this. This is the only Christmas present I got in the mail. It says inhale,
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exhale, repeat. And in the bottom, it says gloss. So Greg Greg is a customer of Instantly Relevant. I'm gonna throw it out there. He sent me a gift, and I felt like, like, oh, I should do that. And I didn't and I was like, but I'm gonna keep this mug because it is the perfect sized mug to drink coffee out of. And if you can't see it, it is black and orange, and I love it. So, Greg, please continue. Yes.
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Thank you for calling it out and happy that we were able to send a gift. And so, I've had my agency for over 12 years. We do full scale web development, web design, digital marketing, SEO, content, social, just as an overview. Where my story, I guess you could say, got interesting because I just heard the other day, I think there are 120,000 agencies in the US, so it's a pretty crowded market. And about 3 years ago, I kinda hit a brick wall in my life, my career, really not feeling passion, kinda not knowing where to take things, and I went back into therapy. And at the time, I was on prescription meds for depression, anxiety, ADD, and I had been on those meds for over 10 years at that point. And they were, quote, helping, but I realized they weren't, I won't use quotes, healing, kinda getting to the root of my issues. So I went back into therapy, and I remember my therapist asked me in one session, Greg, where do you feel this in your body? And I kind of looked at her like she had 3 heads. Didn't get it. Like, what are you talking about in my body? Like, these are feelings. These are emotions. These are fears. And that really helped me see that I was disembodied, and and and I I was kinda feeling everything from the neck up, if you will. And so that led to a journey in pursuing psychedelic healing. Just kind of trying something completely different, still staying in therapy, but titrating off the meds I was on and embarking on a profound, beautiful, scary, but ultimately healing journey that started in January 2022 with a very powerful psychedelic medicine called Ayahuasca, which some you some of your audience may have heard of. It is becoming more known in the mainstream, if you will. And through that work, it's a very intense experience, and we could spend a whole podcast talking about that, and, actually, I have. But, essentially, it really kinda opened me up to other possibilities, if you will. Scary, beautiful, but helping me see parts of myself, that I had not understood before. And I came out of that, and we were still in the midst of COVID. And I just started devouring books, podcasts, even attending, virtual meetups around the country and just really diving into this world, so I could get a better understanding of how these medicines could help me and make an impact. And in the summer of 2022, I became an ambassador for the Natural Medicine Health Act, also known as Prop 1 22, which was seeking at the time to legalize certain psychedelic medicines in Colorado. And I've always been a good citizen. I pay attention. I vote. But in this effort, it was really an honor to really be a part of the process, getting involved in Get Out the Vote efforts, fundraising efforts, and starting to publicly share my story, which I'm doing right now. And I observed that I was comfortable being vulnerable, sharing my struggles and, and my journey, whether in a one on one discussion in groups or on very public podcasts just like this. So it was a really rewarding experience. And, also, during that time, I started intentionally focusing my agency on how I could serve this. I call it an ecosystem, really, not a market or a vertical, although it could be called that. But the psychedelic space, and it can be called a space, but I call it an ecosystem just because there are so many unique parts to it that are certainly unique compared to other, quote, verticals. And so, I started to feel that passion. I was already feeling it, personally, but it was I was able to now kinda weave it into my professional life and career and started to feel that passion that I had, you know, sought approximately 18 months before when this journey started with my venture back into therapy as I described before. And throughout this time, and now I'm kinda going fast forwarding, cofounded 2 nonprofits in the space, the Colorado Psychedelic Society, which is a place for individuals to learn and connect, about more about psychedelic healing, and a professional organization called the Psychedelic Business Association that serves businesses in the space. And then I'm also on the board of a third called Empathic, which provides nonprofit consultation to organizations in the space. And so, you know, you're hearing me bounce back and forth between my agency and the work in psychedelics and my personal journey, and that's just what has unfolded. It's kind of all melded together. And so fast forward, here we are, you know, almost two and a half years later. I still struggle, very vulnerable about that, but my journey has really, really improved my life. And there's a famous graph called the healing graph, and it's, you know, time and healing, and you see a straight line going up over time ideally, but, you know, the day to day goes up and down and sideways and backwards. So I've been through all of those curves and twists, but the straight line is upward. And, obviously, certainly happy about that, but still have my days. And I also wanna say that, it's not just psychedelic medicines only, but other modalities too, such as breath work and something I've gotten really into the past few months, which is cold plunges. And, again, we could spend the whole talk just diving into those, but my point being that it's not necessarily just Yeah. Psychedelic medicines because those aren't for everyone, but there are many ways and paths towards healing, and I've been involved in several of them. But you had your agency gloss before doing this. Is that correct, starting? Yes. I did. I had it for many years before this, but now it's
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just, as I mentioned, melding with my passion for, work in the psychedelic space and mental health in general. Yeah. No. Well, listen. I and and, you know, I've connected on this a bit. And, since you and I initially meeting several months ago, I've met so many more people. But I think it's also in the space of psychedelics and things. And I'm not seeking it out. I just think, I think it's like when you say, hey. I'm gonna go buy a white Toyota Highlander. All you see is white Toyota Highlander. There's there's a psychological effect. I don't know the name of it because I'm not a very smart person, but that's I know that exists. I've heard it. Some technical term. But that then you notice it more, and you're like, oh, you know, and it helps you connect with people to understand it. Now I'm one who would be scared enough to do psychedelics. I've never I don't consider weed a drug, just to be clear. But it's not that I want my kids doing it. If you hear this, don't. You gotta wait a little bit. But the point is it's safer than alcohol. But, the point is I'd be frightened to death of this. So the paranoia preset pretext would be off the charts for me. But I had a question. Did you have you have gotten away from the, you know, the pharma world of drugs since taking doing this? Wow.
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I have. So I and I've I charted off those meds. And, what what I will say is that I never condemn prescription medication, and some people do. I don't take an extreme approach on that. It's on more moderate. People can certainly find a lot of benefit from those medications. I I found personally for myself, it was no longer serving me. I just feel passionate about the fact that psychedelics should be part of the solution set so that it's not just one way or just one type of medication, but these medicines that have been around, in certain cases That's that's what I wonder sometimes
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of years. Of of oh, I hate to use propaganda. But when when, modern medicine is formed, there's plenty of good things. Don't don't you like that that are out there. But there's also plenty of nefarious marketing that goes on so people are driven to buy things that they they could potentially have for nearly free that exist in the world. And that's, there's some truth to that. It's unproven. But to me, it would make no sense if it didn't go that way where, you know, you could strip off some bark for some tree in Costa Rica and put it on your knee, and you'd probably feel better in an hour and so or you could have an Advil. Right? I mean, like like and and I think that exists. So That's right. That's right. Is that the case, though, with psychedelics that they were labeled in a certain way to affect something? Or, like, why why you know, from your perspective, perspective, now that you're on the other side of it, where do you think the reality is with using these to better your wellness of just your mental wellness?
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Yeah. That's a great question. And the stigma is coming down, whether it's attracting in your life to see white Toyotas, if that was the brand you said, or psychedelics that is that are just becoming more known in the mainstream, after decades or 100 of years of kind of being off the radar. And in the 19 sixties, as many people do know, you know, drugs like LSD or some were were legal or were not illegal, and then, you know, the next administration nixed, all psychedelic medicines, and that's a whole thing. And, you know, 60 years later, here we are, and it's coming into the mainstream, which, still has its risks and problems. But, overall, I'm thrilled about it, and people who do this work are thrilled about it. Some of that has has come from certain celebrities, people like Aaron Rodgers, for example, coming out and saying he used Ayahuasca and won 2 MVPs in a row. And we won't get into whether people like him or don't like him. He's a polarizing figure. But people like that and Prince Harry and other celebrities that are, you know, being open about how they've healed from these medicines. So that plus legalization efforts like I noted before in Colorado and where in Oregon where, psilocybin is also not only legal, but healing centers are open, which they will be here in Colorado. So it's, you know, you're hearing about it more is is not a coincidence. It's Yeah. You know, the we're we're we're hitting a a turning point.
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Speaking of polarizing topics, you know what the male medicine magnet. So the female magnet? Your rear end is repulsive. Yeah. No. I don't. Your your guys, it's You always teach your rear end is repulsive. Tell me. Your backside. I may have blew that joke. Anyway. Alright. So let me take the lesson. In this case, this is for anybody, but since mostly entrepreneurs listen to this, I would say this, and I think this is important specifically in entrepreneurship, is mental wellness. Things get amplified when you're on your own, when you're trying to specific, especially if you're cutting, like, your own path. You haven't like, you're you know, maybe you have a franchise. Maybe you've started your own website, but whatever it is, it it's you have this pressure now to provide and do. And so your mental wellness gets amplified. And specifically, I think the things that you're already kind of struggling with really get amplified. So if you battle with depression, if you battle with anxiety or anger, those get those are the first to kind of pop up. They're little lava pockets that blow out. And so if you haven't done what you need to in I'm not saying Ayahuasca or anything else is the right but the point is deal with it. And and I'm hearing is be open minded at the stuff. The way you're dealing with it isn't working. Is that is that a fair kind of assessment of that from a setup?
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Yep.
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Yes. Yep. Absolutely. Okay. So let me let me so I'm gonna take that as your well, that you know, one lesson. But, you know, if you looked back when you first started your agency, first of all, why did you get going into the agency world of marketing, and what would be the one thing you tell yourself back then to go do?
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Yes. Good question. So before I started the agency, I was actually still in the digital marketing space, but in the form of a lead generation agency. And but the type of lead generation we did was quite different than yours. It was really working in, you know, networks and ecosystems and in many cases, selling leads to people I didn't even know because they were just kinda going into marketplaces. And so, I I kinda became distant, disillusioned with that. Not that it's a bad vertical to be in. People still work in that space. But I really wanted to make more of an impact, work directly with clients, and be able to have that experience and that dynamic of actually, you know, really helping a business that I knew and could look at and see the results. So that's kinda how I pivoted from affiliate lead generation space into the agency space. And so it it it did check off that box for sure until I hit some of the challenges and roadblocks that, you know, that I mentioned before in terms of when things pivoted in in my world. And in terms of just kind of reflecting back on your comment about being an entrepreneur, anyone out there who is knows I mean, even on your very best days, if you're feeling your best, man, is this challenging? And then if you throw in something debilitating like anxiety, depression, you know, trauma, ADD,
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you know, it's Yeah. The the entrepreneurial ADD, which is almost needed to become an entrepreneur, to be fair. If you don't manage it and listen, I struggle with that, too, of, like, oh, I tried this. Let's try that. I want to throw that away because it's getting hard. Like like like, that is the probably number one thing because it creates procrastination, which is you just don't have time to do because you're, like, you don't want to do certain tasks. And even if you outsource them, you know they're not getting done as well as you sometimes. That's maddening because you because you'll realize that that's absolutely critical. And, I haven't found a solution. I know that I've created 3 things that work together to kind of help manage my ADD, so to speak, to entrepreneurial ADD. I'm not diagnosing myself. But, you know, with the marketing company and the podcast and then this community we're building, that allows my interest to kind of bounce around but have a central focus of purpose around entrepreneurship. And I could do a whole probably YouTube channel on just that. But the idea being is in your own journey and specifically maybe the entrepreneurial ADD piece, which is what lots of people struggle with specifically as entrepreneurs, What are you how do you manage that? Because I know I struggle with it still, and I feel like I'm at a D level if you were grading it, which I'm passing, which means I'm functional. I'm gonna go to the next grade, but it's not an a.
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So you're I'm the I'm the Yes. D minus. You're not the a of ADD or the d of ADD. Got it. Okay. The d the d minus. Got you. So how I manage that along with other struggles that, as I mentioned before, I still do struggle with, just not at the same sort of depth and level as before. And that and that's what it really comes down to, Thomas, is managing that, and it can be managed through, prescription medications. And if that's working, that's great. It's obviously whatever works that does not cause side effects or other, you know, negative consequences. So in terms of myself, I turn towards other modalities, some of which I mentioned before. One big one being breathwork, and breathwork is another modality that's becoming more well known. So I hear more people talking about it, doing it, you know, seeing more articles pop up on my feed, and it's something that's easy to do and and can be done very easily throughout the day as an entrepreneur or a human being. And we could spend a whole episode on that, but, you know, one popular way to do it is just called box breathing. Four breaths in, hold for 4, 4 breaths out, hold for 4. And if you do that 5, 6, 7, 10 times, which only takes 3, 4 minutes out of your day,
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You'll likely get to It's like a pre morning work, like, warm up before you get going, or do you kinda recheck it at lunch? Or how often do you recommend doing that?
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Yeah. So I I do it every morning, but I'm definitely an intense practitioner. I also do it for sometimes 30, 35 minutes, but that's not necessary. So box breathing, and I'm trying to mention practices I do that are easy to integrate for anyone listening that is not necessarily kinda going deeper into all these areas as I mentioned. Anyone can take 2 minutes out of their day and do some box breathing. Right? And if that helps you, then you can do that several times a day, and then you might find yourself doing it in the morning. There are breath apps like Othership, which has been incredibly helpful for me. They have hundreds of different breathwork sessions of different length and different usage. So like anything, you can go really deep into this, but simple box breathing. Try it and see if that helps. Things that I'm sure you know about and other entrepreneurs know about, but having the discipline to do it. Oh, that's adopting work and going for a walk, taking a break, drinking a lot of water. Right? I mean, it's the things we know that we don't always do, and I don't and I don't always do them. But, certainly making these things more habitual
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so that Yeah. Well, that that's a great point. So taking the break. So I am a big sufferer of that where I do not, and I haven't for last 2 years. Taking time to work out. Do like, it just, and the mentality is that I can't let my foot off the accelerator because of my type of personality as I'm kind of all in or all out. And there's and the word moderation is a made up word in English dictionary. I don't believe it exists. So so I don't still practice moderation. I'm either not drinking or I'm drinking or I'm drinking a lot of water or no like, I'm working out a lot or I'm not. But what I find is you can let the foot off the accelerator, and it's gonna feel weird and uncomfortable. And and but but what happens is the hours that you have remaining, you feel like you need to be more focused, and so you are. And it has you don't realize until it happens, especially once you're in the mode of it. You don't want to use working out or a walk as an excuse to avoid work. You should be using it as an intention to improve the remaining time that you're going to go focus on work and your life and everything. So I know, like, if I don't do my workouts right after I drop off kids in the morning, it doesn't happen. You know? Outside of maybe going with my son at nighttime to kind of just get him to the gym and do stuff. If I don't go focus before I kick my day off, no chance it's happening. I'll be too tired, too unfocused, too many things to go down. So I make it happen. And and and you have to do it. So in your own world, I mean, anyone out there, find a block of window and try it and stick to it and go execute your time for you because you are an entrepreneur. You should be able to control some of your time a little better to make use of it to, you know, extend your life a bit as well.
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Yeah. Well said. And I think you touched on so many of the challenges we face as entrepreneurs not wanting to take a break. And we think the more we do and the more we work, the more we'll get done. To a point, yes, but then it can have adverse effects on your mental health, on your family life balance. And the very effect we're going for, which is more success for our clients and our business in the world, we're actually
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gonna be A 100%. So let let's get into marketing of of what you're doing with website development. I agree with that. That's a I don't call it a commoditized space, but it's highly competitive. I mean, of the 120,000 agencies, probably 119,000 are website development or SEO. No. It's a completely competitive place. And I know from experience, the cheapest the guy who pays the least pays at least twice. So can you walk through some your philosophy maybe on website development? It's been intent in purpose in this modern era as it relates to social media, other things. And, you know, let's just start there, and we'll get into some of the gotchas and do's and don'ts. But, like, give me your philosophy on on website development, its place in the marketing strategy.
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Sure. Absolutely. And so, this is something that has, kind of become my philosophy as I've gone through this personal journey that I've shared. Part of which is how do we differentiate against the 120,000 other agencies. And, obviously, subsets of those are serving different size companies, different markets, etcetera, but still the subset that exists is a large number of agencies doing similar work, web development, digital marketing. And so for me, those watching, you'll see, you know, I'm wearing a part of my brand. It says empathic on my hat just like you're wearing your cut tie. And, you know, through I I've always considered myself an empathic person, but through this work, that's really unfolded in a in a much larger way. And I realized that it is the foundation or cornerstone of, what we now bring into our work, helping clients build their businesses, and it's really using empathy as that starting point. And what I mean by that is I'll talk to, a business owner and especially people we work with more frequently now or people in that are in the mental health space, and it might be even a solo practitioner. What you know, why do you do this work? And I could ask you the same question, Thomas. And it really all gets down to helping another business organization with my or our or your special superpower, what you're bringing to the table. Of course, you do it if you're a for profit business to generate money and to help your family and all that stuff. But in terms of what you're doing in the marketplace, it's some way of helping. And so it you you have that empathy because you can't be successful as an entrepreneur if you're not putting yourself in your prospective or actual client's shoes. Right? So we're all doing that or we should be doing that. And those of us that are doing that, or have the intention to do that, must have that same empathy shown and felt in your online presence. And so if I'm sitting down with you and we're having lunch, Thomas, I'm like, yeah. Great guy. You know, I I I I know you. You're awesome. You do great work. But if I go to your website and I call these the, top five reasons you're scaring away your best customers, or I also sometimes call them revenue leaks or sometimes I call them impact leaks. It's really all of the above, and there are also more than 5. But these are ways that empathy Right. Is not showing up in your brand. And so I can rip through them quickly. You know what? The first one is, can you find me? And that that one necessarily isn't necessarily related to empathy. But if I can't find you, then I can't meet you. And if I can't meet you, then you can't help me. That's an opportunity lost, a revenue leak, an impact leak. Number 2 really is and and before I even go any further, I I really tie these to the offline space as well. So any of you out there with offline businesses that have an online presence, you don't, you want to basically emulate what you're doing in your offline brick and mortar office in your online space. So that brings me to number 2. Are you going to make me wait? So you don't want people to wait at your store, in your waiting room. So then if your website takes 12 seconds to load, then you've just lost an opportunity. That's an impact leak, a revenue leak, and you're not showing me, the user, empathy because I don't want to wait. And that again, well, this just all comes back to to empathy. And then if you wanna use business terms, these are components that are causing friction. So if we're just taking all the emotion out of it and, you know, you you want to eliminate friction or at least remove as much of it as possible. And then number 3, once I get to your site, well, you have 2 or 3 seconds to capture my attention with your, quote, hero image, and that is everything I'm seeing before I start to scroll down the page. And that consists of a very compelling, well designed image or set of images. And most importantly or equally important, a very powerful compelling headline that conveys benefits, tells me why you're going to solve my problem because the user is asking themselves, what's in it for me? What's in it for me? How are you going to solve my problem? That doesn't mean your user is selfish, but they are seeking a solution. And so if you and your hero image are not conveying that solution Yeah. Within 2 or 3 seconds, then out of there. Right? And we've all been that, or experienced that as consumers. Everything I'm talking about. Slow loading website. I get to your page. What does this company even do? And I always say that and this is a very actionable tip that I could almost promise one of your, listeners can say, oh, that's me. The world's worst headline is welcome to my business. Welcome to ABC Carpet Cleaning. Welcome to ABC bicycle shop. You don't need to welcome me. Okay? You need to tell me how you're going to help me, and that is with a powerful, compelling benefit oriented headline. And we could talk about features versus benefits, but real quick, feature is what something is, but a benefit is what something does. And, quote, I say often, didn't make it up. You don't go to the hardware store to buy a quarter inch drill bit. You go because you need a quarter inch hole. You're going because you need the hole. That's the
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benefit. Oh my word. I should know that because I wrote it in my book. Yeah. I do forget his name, and I'm sorry because I I But I but it's a famous quote. Like, it's just that quote. Don't go there to buy a quarter. I need a whole. Alright. Well, there's a few ways we can do that. Yes. Yes.
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You need you need a whole. And then you could even take it further, which I do in my trainings, and I'll talk about my trainings maybe later in the call. But, why do you need a quarter a quarter inch hole? Well, to hang a mirror. Why do I need a mirror to look good? Why do you need to look good? I have a job interview. Why do I need to look good for the job interview so I get a promotion? Well, why do I need that to advance and make more money to help my family? So you can keep asking yourself, and this is a great tip, why is that important? Why is that important? And you will get to a higher level of, you know, something that resonates with the user. And it really ultimately goes happiness. That's at the top. But if you own a hardware store, you can't say coming on in by a drill bit to make you happier. So, you know, depending on your product service vertical, you have to kind of get to the appropriate level that makes enough sense. So if I'm a psychologist, yes, come visit me to help your depression, and you will be happier. It's kind of a direct jump. But if you want a carpet cleaning company, well, it's to make my house look better and because I'm having a party, and I want people to be happy and say my house is awesome and right? So that is the, you know, 3rd, impact leak. And then the per the user is going to ask, am I credible, or are you credible? And they're going to look for components like testimonials. A well designed website. Is it easy to navigate? Is, are are you now telling me more about what you do as I scroll down the page or click through? That shows me your empathy, that you understand my problems, and that you can solve them because you have the credibility to do so, whether that's letters after your name, appearances on podcast, references to appearances in the media, speaking, and, certainly, you do an amazing job of that, Thomas, with everything you do in your work and how you get your name out there and cut time movement and, right? So, like, people that meet you, and I know I felt when I met you, like, yeah. Whoo. This this guy. I would like to so you I've been throwing that survey as well. I've been nervous. And if you listen yeah. You do. Even with the Right. Even with the ADD minus, you you check off that credit credibility box in spades. And then the final one, and you can reflect back or, you know, move on to another topic is, is it easy to do business with you? So, again, back to the online scenario. Right? If I come in your store, you make it easy to pay, and you check out check me out quickly and, right, you're you're making it easy to do business with you, taking all forms of credit cards, you know, cash, check, Bitcoin, in a website or online presence space. So many ways to do that. You know? Is it easy to schedule with you using tools that make it easy to do that versus I've seen this schedule with us and you click a button and then it takes us to a contact form and says fill this out, and we'll get back in touch to schedule a call. And by the way, do you like mornings, afternoons, or evenings? That's not a that doesn't make it easy. What makes it easy is click here, pick a calendar, space that works, and you're good. Another one that I like to talk about is accessibility, and this is an important one. And if you've seen the little icon on the bottom right of a website, and you click on it, you know, it looks like a a a figure, and then a menu will pop up that makes it easier for folks who have certain challenges to interact with your site. And there's a special button there for ADD, so, we can both click that. And and vision impaired. By the way, this is important to know, in the US, it's legally required to have this on your site. Legally required to, adhere to the American Disabilities Act. And so there are solutions out there for, you know, $50 a month. I highly recommend doing that today. It's easy to do. It's low cost. You're minimizing legal exposure or eliminating in this case. But back to empathy, you're telling your users I care about everyone who comes to this site. And many other components fall under the is it easy to work with you, but that's really or those are 2 specific ones that, you know, anyone listening can can go make happen in a matter of days and for not a lot of of dollars. So those are the those are the impact leaks as I call them, revenue leaks, but they all tie back to empathy, and that comes back to why are you doing the work you're doing and just start to think about empathy as a, you know, as a fabric, really, that informs your website development and then, of course, your marketing Yeah. Your content, your social media content, your email content.
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It's interesting. So we don't source events. I'm sure that limits cuts off a a good portion of of a marketplace who's kinda I call it bro sales. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. We gotta sell. It's like more like boiler room mentality. No empathy. It's just buy, buy, buy, and you find the people who are either absolute ready and love that other you know, or they don't. And so and I'm okay with that. That's not a criticism. I think that's, it's a more effective long term way to appeal to an audience. A bigger audience is to be empathetic. I know we kind of focus on altruism. It's a simple it's a form of that, I think, where you're how can I serve that audience and and everything's around the in the service of empathy is, I think, an extension or even probably a deeper primary take on that because it's it's understanding from their perspective, I guess, is probably to say it, like, of that? How do I serve you best understanding your perspective of being conscious of that? So I love that approach. And I think if you could do that in your posts, just people to entrepreneurs, your posts, your content, your website communication, people will certainly feel more connected and more likely to buy as opposed you have to sell to them. That that's the that's the trigger. And it's not false empathy. It's not false, you say, even altruism. It's if you truly if your culture of your company is truly to be like that, that will come out in the first few minutes of a meeting. It'll come out very quickly when the people interact with you that that is real. Everyone you you know, you gotta you gotta sell deals. People gotta buy stuff to get stuff done. So it's gonna happen. Just can you get through that initial the breakers on the beach to get the smooth sailing. Right? So
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And that's the point. If if they if they meet you, they're going to ideally like you and wanna do business with you. Oh, they don't even know how to get ahold of you. 20 seconds to load. They won't meet you. Right. So it's that and that's why I call them leaks. Right? Impact leaks or revenue leaks. You you've you've limited your ability to make an impact and generate revenue for your your business or even in the nonprofit world so you get a donation or a volunteer. So it it applies to any organization you have to pay to. What advice do you give to accomplish something? So you and I both leverage some labor arbitrage and technology
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to help drive it's the only way you can do business to be competitive right now, in my opinion, is to leverage a global labor market to get things done. And if you're not well, you're either playing a whole different game level that people just don't care about money and they they they are paying absolute premiums for. But what do you what do you what advice do you give to other main market agencies, other people in the account on this journey of how to set their organization up so you can be profitable, so you can have a living in the US, which is more expensive sometimes than obviously other countries, but at the same time, leverage resources from around the world or technologies to allow you to be more competitive on price and value at the same time.
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Yes. Great question. And that has been something that, I have leveraged for over a decade now, and that is, leveraging overseas resources. And in my what I learned early on, and I think a lot of people go through this this journey that I've been doing this for a while, is I started just hiring freelancers overseas. And I quickly saw that hiring a freelancer, you just don't get the same level of commitment. No disrespect to freelancers, and they can still play a place, and sometimes we bring them on for short term projects. So it doesn't mean they're just you shouldn't work with them. But I found that bringing them on as a full time resource really made the difference, and treating them You mean a human? In the same way that you would treat hiring someone in the US. You know? Unemployed. Like, hey. Yeah. Great. I and I and I'm glad you mentioned that because I remember years ago, someone said, oh, you can hire someone in this country. Oh my god. You you can pay them, like, $2 an hour. Like, why are you paying them $4 an hour? And this was a country where $4 an hour was competitive, and you might be able to get away with $3 an hour. But, yes, treating them like a human and still gaining the cost benefits. But, you know, we give full health coverage, for example. The country we hire from has a lot more holidays than we do. You know, we we respect all of their many higher quantity of holidays. You know, bonuses. We we we treat them like gold. And we just did an analysis. Our average employee has been with us for 3.88 years. And so I think that's a testament to, you know, how we treat them, and I have a full time resource who, not only focuses on recruiting, but also HR and, chief happiness officer. So she runs events. And, and and even though these this is a, you know, remote workforce, we really treat it like a community. You know, there's a holiday party every year where everyone does come in in person. So it's you know, it comes back to empathy. Right? Not treating them just as a a body sitting somewhere for a lower price than in our market, but really bringing them into a, you know, a community where they feel like they're You know? And and this is always something and and doing great just in the middle of the podcast here. Don't run away. He's gonna tell you how to
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get a hold of them. So if you wanna, and I've seen Greg's approach, by the way, just personally, just throwing out this as a as a thing of how he approach a website, how he goes about developing it, the the care and the and the thought. So if you you were in the market to get a website and do the things you're doing, you at least have a conversation with Greg because he does it. He does do it differently than most agencies. It's much more thoughtful. And I've met some thoughtful ones, but it's a it's a whole new level. That being said, how would they get ahold of you?
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Sure. So, easiest way is through our website. So it's gloss tech dot i o (glosstech.io). Also very findable on LinkedIn. Just search Greg Shanken. I think I'm the only one. G r a g s h a n k e n. Those are the 2 best ways to reach me. I am admittedly not a social guy who's on TikTok, Instagram, and for better or for worse, we we help clients with that, but I have people who do that. So my empathy is not trying to act like I'm a TikTok guy because I'm not. But we have resources that that obviously help clients in in that space. But so those those are really the 2 easiest ways and happy to always do, you know, free client consultations, and definitely not a hard sell. And, generally, we we we folks, not generally, all the time, you know, we I like to pass along just just low hanging fruit nuggets that you can take and run with or, obviously I like to ask these questions at the end, you know, toward the end of the show. Like, what's one question I shoulda asked you, but I didn't? Hey. You could ask me on one of my one of my special skills.
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I that doesn't say I would never know, but I don't know. I probably should lead with that question so we could take a whole tangent from the early days, but then I'd add an ADD takeover. Alright. What are some special skills that Greg Shane?
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Yeah. So one is that, you know, when when you hear people talking about, he's my first cousin once removed or she's my second cousin, people say, I just don't understand how that works. For some crazy reason, I do know how it works, and I've explained it to very smart people, and they go, it's I still don't know how it works. But I can tell you 3rd cousin once removed, 2nd cousin twice removed. There's absolutely no benefit of this, but it is a, a a special skill. And, since you asked, I'll tell you one more, and that is that, I I love acronyms. And you mentioned ADD before, and, my favorite acronym is is IHA. Do you know what that stands for? Probably not. So my I love acronyms. My favorite acronym is IHA. That stands for IHA acronyms, and so that's my favorite one. And then my second favorite is ILA. I love acronyms. So I like taking acronyms We can talk about business and changing the words. User. So I lick animals.
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I I lick animals, sir. What is that? I like animals? I hurt assholes. And I was like, I mean, this this is Okay. And so we'll do this we'll do this in the car. I think it ties to a bigger school of, like, you know, get I don't drink anymore. But when I did, you know, give me, like, 3, 4 drinks and a guitar. We'll just do a 4 chord progression, and I'd, like, just throw things out, and I'll work it into a song. And and I'll just, like, you know, like, and then I'll come up with the the and so I I would do this. I'm not saying it was too good, but it was very funny to me at least.
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Yes. These these special skills are not monetizable, and then That's only certain cases, no one even laughs at them. But, you know, we we try. My my conversion rate is, you know, 80% on the laugh, so I I'd say that's pretty good. That that's better than the sales conversion rate. So If,
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if people function at the acceptable sales conversion rates of, like, 2%, 3 whatever it is, right, people would go mad. So so, therefore, we can assume people who do sales are just generally mad in general. Mad, angry, crazy, all of it, the word itself. Maybe we should come up with an acronym for it. Mature, also dead inside. I don't know.
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I like that one. And and I if if we have just 30 more seconds, I'd be remiss if I didn't share my favorite acronyms that I did create. I should've remembered these. And so one is to describe folks who just kinda don't get stuff done, so I call them fossils. And that stands for full of shit, scattered, indifferent, and lazy. And, you know, to to not just be negative, I also invented created the opposite, which is modern.
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And that stands for must optimistically do everything reliably. I like that acronym guy. I think that is that's your new, TikTok channel. I love that. Here's my acronym of the day. I like that. I will go back a little bit. So I remember when YouTube first came out and people were like, oh, you could put videos. And my idea was, who would watch that much? And I missed it so bad. And as I've gotten older here, like, my late forties, I still I'm just never gonna make a bunch of money from the newest thing coming out because I'm never gonna commit to it. So if you're out there and that's your mentality, don't fight it. Just create a services business around helping people who do get it. Help them execute. Because if you're not committing to something that seems like, wow, it's new, like crypto or Ayahuasca, That's fine. Just commit to helping people, you know, help people. Awesome. Hey, Greg. Thank you so much for joining today. Awesome. So it's always fun, but thank you for kind of sharing this with you, your journey and helping.
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Yes. It's been a pleasure and love the opportunity to share my journey on the business side, on the personal side, and just love to chat with folks about that. And and and that too, if you reach out to me, it can be really about anything, you know, my journey in helping and mental health and or we can talk business. Well, it's, see, glosstech.io.
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That'll be in the show notes for sure. If this was your first time coming here today, thanks for making it at this point. And if you've been here before, you know, to add points awarded. Sometimes I forget to award them, but you know you get them. We are on this mission, 100% on this mission to help entrepreneurs get better, feel a little humor, feel a little light conversation with other entrepreneurs of all types so you can learn one thing. And if you've learned today, if anything, take care of yourself. Make sure, you know, you are, as an entrepreneur, taking care of your mental wellness, and you're taking the time and using the tools of being open minded. So if you wanna become an entrepreneur and stay it, you're you're protecting your life because without, you know, your health, you got nothing. Right? You know, the man with his health has a 1,000 dreams. The man without has only but one. And so that starts in the mind for sure. So take real care of that, anyone listening. But until we meet again next time on the Never Been Promoted podcast, go out there and unleash your entrepreneur. Thanks for listening.
